imo Mana, Energy Shield and Leech are not good enough

"

sidtherat wrote:

It is closed abd limited because you settle only for top of the top builds quickly discatding anything less as unviable crap. It is that feeling like a god and peer pressure thingy that ruins online gaming for many.


It takes effort and special kind of skill to NOT be able to run melee/bow builds on mana. That skill is lack of understanding how mana works.

With spells it is the same story. But sustaining it has its costs. And when i read that 'clarity is a waste of 2heralds' i know it is greed that talks.

You are NOT entitled to 6link spam without costs. Want to do it? Gear and spec into it. Oh but this requires 'wasting' damage? Tough. Life is tough too. You want good things? Pay for it.

As for the melee damage output and spellcasters damage output disparity it is different topic. And that disparity mainly happens for people with mirrored gear that are already outside of design envelope ggg cares about.

Game seems to be balanced around 250-300pdps 1h weapons and while it is shocking for people wielding 500dps daggers it most probably really is.

By obtaining close to perfect items you guys destroy the game for you. Game with so many multipliers cannot be balanced for all power ranges. It simply cannot. And outliers are.. well.. ignored.

This is mostly just nonsense mate. First of all i play solely temp leagues. 500 dps weapons isn't even on your mindset. Hell even 300 dps is not that easy to obtain starting out. Furthermore i have never been equipped with full mirrored gear or anything like that. Simply because i only use standard to test out some stuff. Besides the random mirror worthy item that shows up in 3m leagues there isn't nuch godlike power whatsoever.

I have had plenty of experience with builds post Awakening. And plenty before that. I probably have 15+ chars post awakening 85+. I don't settle for godlike top tier meta builds only. And STILL i feel like we are being pushed towards it.

Nobody with the experience of myself will ever claim solely the meta builds are viable. But they are so much better then everything else, you will start to wonder why bother.

And you were never able to spam 6links without any costs. Spending 1/3 of your points into mana regen and still lack is just countering what it is supposed to do though. Every melee build out there that is not BM is currently oom the moment they desync or misclick. You might find that skillful, i find it just super boring. Mana management is just not fun. Right now you can just add the BM gem to 90% of skills and call it a day. Zero effort needed, zero investment needed. There is no balance at all.

All of this would be alot easier to swallow if the need for ridiculous amounts of defences wasn't also in the game. Alot of people play SC over HC for the simple reason a single mistake won't cost them their char. Dying is not fun in either league. The layers of defence needed for t10+ content is just completely imbalanced, and brings down leech, mana and ES with it.

All my melee and bow builds use mana regen. All of them.

The trick to mana is not mana regen%. It is the flat mana ( te so called wasted flat mana affixes). Few rolls can add A LOT of mana (paua ring with good roll is around 80). This then gets scaled via regen% and mana%.

But noone will test it out because +mana is a wasted affix cutting into damage (replacing diamond rings?..)

Mana regen and leech on a 'natural' mana gained with levels is the worst possible way to do it. There is CB kripp video from like .9.8 or so when he explains the mana mechanics in detail. It is bit conplex but the key to it is the flat mana fr9m gear that multiplies everything.

Mana with attacks is not a problem whatsoever and can be solved with little to no investments (exceptions being ele hit, explosive arrow and dom blow). Wanders are balanced via mana costa.

Spells are harder but.. int gives you a lot of free flat mana that coupled with flat mana from gear and few nodes (matrixFactor page ago had shown a properly balanced tree where mana is handles with 5 nodes not 1/5th..) is perfectly enough

For a six link and stacked cast speed there are sacrifices to be made. Sorry.


As for the weapons - atziri mace is 300pdps and cost peanuts even in leagues. It is a guaranteed item. Same as Binos. I bet that casters can keep up with melee guys using said weapons. Power discrepancies are there but at the very top level.

If one does not want to compete in a pointless race for fastest clear speed all but few builds are perfectly fine even with self found gear. But it seems that the current grading system is: can clear 6man Core / crap

"

sidtherat wrote:

All my melee and bow builds use mana regen. All of them.

The trick to mana is not mana regen%. It is the flat mana ( te so called wasted flat mana affixes). Few rolls can add A LOT of mana (paua ring with good roll is around 80). This then gets scaled via regen% and mana%.

But noone will test it out because +mana is a wasted affix cutting into damage (replacing diamond rings?..)

Mana regen and leech on a 'natural' mana gained with levels is the worst possible way to do it. There is CB kripp video from like .9.8 or so when he explains the mana mechanics in detail. It is bit conplex but the key to it is the flat mana fr9m gear that multiplies everything.

Mana with attacks is not a problem whatsoever and can be solved with little to no investments (exceptions being ele hit, explosive arrow and dom blow). Wanders are balanced via mana costa.

Spells are harder but.. int gives you a lot of free flat mana that coupled with flat mana from gear and few nodes (matrixFactor page ago had shown a properly balanced tree where mana is handles with 5 nodes not 1/5th..) is perfectly enough

For a six link and stacked cast speed there are sacrifices to be made. Sorry.


As for the weapons - atziri mace is 300pdps and cost peanuts even in leagues. It is a guaranteed item. Same as Binos. I bet that casters can keep up with melee guys using said weapons. Power discrepancies are there but at the very top level.

If one does not want to compete in a pointless race for fastest clear speed all but few builds are perfectly fine even with self found gear. But it seems that the current grading system is: can clear 6man Core / crap

Without possibly knowing your levels, what builds. There is simply no way to even compare what you write to what other's experience. I'll say again. Just because something works doesn't mean it's acceptable. Mana management is anti fun. CI is in a bad spot. Leech is terrible for the investment it needs, and even then it's still pretty terrible.

You can keep denying it and randomly say things like 'i got 17 melee chars all on mana' but that does nothing tbh.

"

sidtherat wrote:

It is closed abd limited because you settle only for top of the top builds quickly discatding anything less as unviable crap. It is that feeling like a god and peer pressure thingy that ruins online gaming for many.


It takes effort and special kind of skill to NOT be able to run melee/bow builds on mana. That skill is lack of understanding how mana works.

With spells it is the same story. But sustaining it has its costs. And when i read that 'clarity is a waste of 2heralds' i know it is greed that talks.

You are NOT entitled to 6link spam without costs. Want to do it? Gear and spec into it. Oh but this requires 'wasting' damage? Tough. Life is tough too. You want good things? Pay for it.

As for the melee damage output and spellcasters damage output disparity it is different topic. And that disparity mainly happens for people with mirrored gear that are already outside of design envelope ggg cares about.

Game seems to be balanced around 250-300pdps 1h weapons and while it is shocking for people wielding 500dps daggers it most probably really is.

By obtaining close to perfect items you guys destroy the game for you. Game with so many multipliers cannot be balanced for all power ranges. It simply cannot. And outliers are.. well.. ignored.

Well the point is that the mana issue limits the possibilties what mana reliant builds can achieve and since this game is mostly about grind it is no fun to bother with builds that are fun if you can just resort to an easy blood magic build that does more damage ( due to saving mana nodes AND having more auras ) and farms faster / safer. Creativity feels unrewarding right now IMHO.

Do a Blood Magic / Armour build, level with Flame totem, switch to Incinerate later - or just a 2H cycloner - boring but since it uses the two current meta keypoints - armour for reliable mitigation, life regen with Blood Magic to not having to waste a single thought on mana = easy and fast GG build.

Right now Mana just feels like a punishment for trying something out.

Before 2.0 Mana did something for your build - now it is just a burden everyone tries to get rid of in one way or another. ( trying to loose as few as possible doing so )

Edit : Funny with regards to the current mana issue that the highest race reward is a Soul Taker - probably an often used item right now ( i used one for the first time ever during the 1m league - a stat stick to get rid of mana )... Look - we have no mana issue

If you use reduced mana or mana leech in a 6 link. You don't have a 6 link. You have an overpriced 5 link. If you have to cut a bunch of damage nodes or drop a damage aura to use a 6 link. You might as well just stay on 5 and not pay x exalts or waste x fusings. If I give you 1 boost but I take away 1 boost in return. How many boosts do you have? What was the point?

Idk for the rest but mana regeneration is realy small and it demand use of Clarity.
Whit clarity its noght and day, so all invesment in mana and mana regeneration is rather usles unles you fortify it whit clarity.

"

sidtherat wrote:

It is closed abd limited because you settle only for top of the top builds quickly discatding anything less as unviable crap.

Because it is.
When some build provides much less clear speed, much less safety, and much less EVERYTHING good, it's called unviable CRAP.
In competive game every self-respecting player uses only "top-tier" builds, items, etc. All others are for noobs, and can be non-existant as well.
The question is - how many "top of the top" builds the game actually has?

"

MortalKombat3 wrote:

"

sidtherat wrote:

It is closed abd limited because you settle only for top of the top builds quickly discatding anything less as unviable crap.

Because it is.
When some build provides much less clear speed, much less safety, and much less EVERYTHING good, it's called unviable CRAP.
In competive game every self-respecting player uses only "top-tier" builds, items, etc. All others are for noobs, and can be non-existant as well.
The question is - how many "top of the top" builds the game actually has?

it is a very simple answer - by this logic there is only ONE top build.

second - 'competetive' game? really? you are competing for what? when you realize that this game is about chasing ones own goal (as there is no clear 'winner' in this game - except for races but you arent talking about that, are you?) then you realize that this 'optimal' mindset is a mindset that you are FORCING on yourself. the entire 'optimal' thing is pointless...

you race for top spot? youll never reach it (and by your logic only 'top' matters). and even top 100 requires no-lifing (and has little to do with build/clear speed - but with wealth for maps and a carry group) and most importantly - time wasted. besides - who cares about the ladder? everybody except 'first to 100' are nameless and noone gives a damn about guy reaching lvl 92 or 95

you compete in wealth acquisition? clearing maps is the worst way to do it - spam trade chat with scam ratios and youll beat even the fastest map clearing guys. trading is the way to get rich in this game. playing the game itself is optional.

you compete for fame of being first to something? playing 'top meta' youll always be a copycat, one of thousands, nameless. Ghudda on the other hand..

so what you are competing in poe that makes you feel forced to run only that one 'most efficient build'?

or maybe it is that compensation and self-esteem thingy that fuels most online gamers nowadays? this is a serious question

because i always thought people play games for two reasons: for fun or for money (esports). but it seems that there is a third reason: to feel superior due to using 'build better than that one that noobs use'. one learns something new every day and that was the missing puzzle that explains A LOT

@sidtherat

It seems you believe everyone is playing games for the same reason you do. People can have goals for themselves wich they don't need to explain to you why or how. Everyone really just plays his own game. Your insulting posts because you can't find anyone agreeing with your nonsense posts is slightly disappointing to be honest. Your opinion is not a fact, no matter how much you delude yourself.

I really hope the next big patch will adress issues written out in this topic. If not i'm afraid PoE is not gonna be my main game to turn to any longer.

"

Miská wrote:

@sidtherat

It seems you believe everyone is playing games for the same reason you do. People can have goals for themselves wich they don't need to explain to you why or how. Everyone really just plays his own game. Your insulting posts because you can't find anyone agreeing with your nonsense posts is slightly disappointing to be honest. Your opinion is not a fact, no matter how much you delude yourself.

I really hope the next big patch will adress issues written out in this topic. If not i'm afraid PoE is not gonna be my main game to turn to any longer.

i think youve missed my point - i do not judge 'why and how' people play. this is a game where everyone is entitled to their own goals. im ok with that - my goals/self-imposed rules are JUST AS GOOD as yours. if you understood otherwise - point me to the part that made you think so



what i want to say is that people first create a 'vision' how the game works and what is to be achieved (like - i can run every 6L spell without any resource worries whatsoever) and then cannot understand that the game mechanics and developer intentions are/were different

second observation that i make is that people instead of overcoming the challenge (mana management IS doable, but for a cost - that is unbearable to many. see above.) prefer to a) whine their way to the bank without even trying b) give up after first try (like stacking just mana reg%) while refusing to acknowledge that their mechanics understanding might be at fault

if you say that you have to spend 1/3 of your passives on mana - id like to see that tree and items.

third observation is that some like to write 'XXXX is an unfun mechanic'. well.. it is a game. game is about solving puzzles and overcoming challenges. what puzzles and challenges are there when you have infinite resources and '1 click win' gameplay?