imo Mana, Energy Shield and Leech are not good enough

"

Panini_aux_olives wrote:

I agree with most of your points MortalKombat3, except that you should say physical attacks, not just attacks. Elemental attacks builds are just in the same bad place as spells.

Yes, i meant physical attacks mostly.
But elemental attack arent is such bad place as you think. Yes, then cant leech, but they still have low manacost and they still can have life/mana gained on hit (which can be just as good as life/mana leech).

"

Panini_aux_olives wrote:

But they don't have mana regen, mostly. I've tried one ele reaver recently. I still can't sustain my attacks with berek's grip and the full spirit void cluster. As it's ok with mana leech support, I guess i'll have get some additional increased mana leech/s. I may be wrong however, as I haven't leveled very far. But still, the tree is very stretched and glassy as hell. It's much less viable than phys attack builds.

Also, ele attack build cannot focus on one element as well as spell builds, because of how elemental is rolled on weapon, so they get less effectiveness from elemental penetration.

Have you ever tried things like Gemini Claws? I even made a short guide for it (link in my sig)...
Yes, attacks usually dont spec into single element, but that doesnt mean they cant. You can easily make 100% lightning elemental attacks with things like Static/Lightning strike, Lightning Arrow, Avatar of Fire+ any 50% conversion to fire or cold skill, etc.
It's just suboptimal usually to lose your life/mana leech totally and allowing enemy's resistances to come in play. But even then, elemental attacks are still much BETTER than most elemental spells.
Try reave with dual-claws according to my guide, or Molten strike (which is many times stronger), and you'll see the difference.

EB/MoM/ZO/AA + life regen, life leech gem and warlord's mark gem. all you need as a caster.

"

kompaniet wrote:

EB/MoM/ZO/AA + life regen, life leech gem and warlord's mark gem. all you need as a caster.

Or just get BM....
Or just dont play caster (except incinerate), and being able to use all life, regen, etc, etc you want for defences.

I post my feedback because i actually WANTED to play self-caster, made all math around it and.... Found that no spell besides incinerate (and icestorm - but it's rather a unique) is worth using. Firestorm is decent option too, but in lategame it's far too clunky to use, and it really SUCKS against fast-moving targets...
I tried BM incinerate, and it was perfectly fine. Yes, i know that incinerate builds usually abuse Elreon's jewelry (because that means less investments into sustain), but even if you try to make Incinerate on MANA, it's perfectly viable. You can use Pledge of Hands, get MoM on mana, use no auras and even use both life and mana leech gems to gain absurd tankiness, and it will still be viable due to Incinerate's GOOD base DPS. BM is just simplier, and probably a bit better.
Futhermore, with things like Emberwake+Taming, Incinerate reaches completely new level of POWER, melting bosses down in a few seconds.

I want GGG to look at self-cast spells. All them should be buffed a lot! First, their STUPID mana costs should be brought in line with attack skills. I see no reasons why spells should have double or even triple manacost than attacks. Some spells (like Incinerate) - yes, if it's balanced by their power, etc. But there SHOULD be cheap spells just like cheap attacks, available to use with mininal investments into mana.

"

MortalKombat3 wrote:

I want GGG to look at self-cast spells. All them should be buffed a lot! First, their STUPID mana costs should be brought in line with attack skills. I see no reasons why spells should have double or even triple manacost than attacks. Some spells (like Incinerate) - yes, if it's balanced by their power, etc. But there SHOULD be cheap spells just like cheap attacks, available to use with mininal investments into mana.

they already did cut the cost of spells and by a lot

playerbase reaction? pick less mana nodes

players (generalization) consider 'reasonable' investment (or 'minimal') only when it is around.. more or less NO investment whatsoever. for most players the entire resource system is an obstacle to one-click slaughter. most do not need complex games but games that allow them to 'feel like gods' (nothing wrong with that - but then admit it is a one-click game for casual players. noone will do that will they? it has to do with that 'self-esteem thing')




mana investment needed to sustain spells is perfectly doable (even more now when all classes have easy access to -mana cost(via jewels) - not only templar) but it requires some nodes, some affixes and some basic math skills

nodes - 'not worth it'.
affixes - conflicts with uniques and/or damage or is just lame to pick
math - yeah right


also cast speed is a linear multiplier to mana costs - if one cannot sustain mana there are two options: drop some cast speed OR add some more mana regen (or WHINE on reddit). it is interesting that people run OOM and yet still keep that Faster Casting socketed


finally - unreasonable expectations: 6Link with 150mana/cast with cast speed trough the roof. well.. game rules put a soft cap - via mana costs - on what is achievable. why people expect to reach the technical maximum?

id like to see a crit build that deems accuracy 'not worth it' and then moan about broken mechanics. ive seen such builds - 83% chance to hit, overstacked crit, godly weapon (probably rmt'ed or simply trade warriored) and questions 'why my build sucks?'

proper crit build invests more into accuracy than spellcaster needs to invest into mana. and noone has any problems with that. so why mana is such a problem?

"

MortalKombat3 wrote:

"

kompaniet wrote:

EB/MoM/ZO/AA + life regen, life leech gem and warlord's mark gem. all you need as a caster.

Or just get BM....
Or just dont play caster (except incinerate), and being able to use all life, regen, etc, etc you want for defences.

I post my feedback because i actually WANTED to play self-caster, made all math around it and.... Found that no spell besides incinerate (and icestorm - but it's rather a unique) is worth using. Firestorm is decent option too, but in lategame it's far too clunky to use, and it really SUCKS against fast-moving targets...
I tried BM incinerate, and it was perfectly fine. Yes, i know that incinerate builds usually abuse Elreon's jewelry (because that means less investments into sustain), but even if you try to make Incinerate on MANA, it's perfectly viable. You can use Pledge of Hands, get MoM on mana, use no auras and even use both life and mana leech gems to gain absurd tankiness, and it will still be viable due to Incinerate's GOOD base DPS. BM is just simplier, and probably a bit better.
Futhermore, with things like Emberwake+Taming, Incinerate reaches completely new level of POWER, melting bosses down in a few seconds.

I want GGG to look at self-cast spells. All them should be buffed a lot! First, their STUPID mana costs should be brought in line with attack skills. I see no reasons why spells should have double or even triple manacost than attacks. Some spells (like Incinerate) - yes, if it's balanced by their power, etc. But there SHOULD be cheap spells just like cheap attacks, available to use with mininal investments into mana.

+1.000.000

"

sidtherat wrote:

"

MortalKombat3 wrote:

I want GGG to look at self-cast spells. All them should be buffed a lot! First, their STUPID mana costs should be brought in line with attack skills. I see no reasons why spells should have double or even triple manacost than attacks. Some spells (like Incinerate) - yes, if it's balanced by their power, etc. But there SHOULD be cheap spells just like cheap attacks, available to use with mininal investments into mana.

they already did cut the cost of spells and by a lot

playerbase reaction? pick less mana nodes

players (generalization) consider 'reasonable' investment (or 'minimal') only when it is around.. more or less NO investment whatsoever. for most players the entire resource system is an obstacle to one-click slaughter. most do not need complex games but games that allow them to 'feel like gods' (nothing wrong with that - but then admit it is a one-click game for casual players. noone will do that will they? it has to do with that 'self-esteem thing')




mana investment needed to sustain spells is perfectly doable (even more now when all classes have easy access to -mana cost(via jewels) - not only templar) but it requires some nodes, some affixes and some basic math skills

nodes - 'not worth it'.
affixes - conflicts with uniques and/or damage or is just lame to pick
math - yeah right


also cast speed is a linear multiplier to mana costs - if one cannot sustain mana there are two options: drop some cast speed OR add some more mana regen (or WHINE on reddit). it is interesting that people run OOM and yet still keep that Faster Casting socketed


finally - unreasonable expectations: 6Link with 150mana/cast with cast speed trough the roof. well.. game rules put a soft cap - via mana costs - on what is achievable. why people expect to reach the technical maximum?

id like to see a crit build that deems accuracy 'not worth it' and then moan about broken mechanics. ive seen such builds - 83% chance to hit, overstacked crit, godly weapon (probably rmt'ed or simply trade warriored) and questions 'why my build sucks?'

proper crit build invests more into accuracy than spellcaster needs to invest into mana. and noone has any problems with that. so why mana is such a problem?

And so? Must we applaude to them? If a thing is insufficient.... IS INSUFFICIENT :/ Reminds me of some random people saying "Ehy, malachai's life has been reduced, don't complain"!!! Ohhhh yes, 17%, what an immense reduction!!!! A 4 link arc still cost a madness to sustain, i see no reason for not cutting in half the cost of spells (for don't talk of the fact that warriors can leech mana by gear or by tree, mages only by GEM)