[Reddit discusses forums] Chris has now posted
" Seems like good moderation is true. haha :D "Is there such a thing as an absolute, timeless enemy? There is no such thing, and never has been. And the reason is that our enemies are human beings like us. They can only be our enemies in relative terms." Last edited by kamil1210#5432 on Oct 21, 2015, 4:57:46 AM
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" I'm not sure about Reddit popularity, but if if the Reddit forum doesn't recognize the value of players who not only play the game extensively, but take the time to give detailed feedback to GGG, then they have seriously underestimate the value of many worthwhile community members, including Charan. While it may be fun to discover new ways to push the synergies and create game breaking builds, that sort of effort really doesn't do much for the majority of players who, according to GGG, never even reach maps. From everything I have seen, Charan's focus is on things that might break the fun factor for people playing in the pre-map parts of the games. IOW - the majority of players. He is not the only one, for certain, but I suspect that players like Charan who don't just play the game to win, but care about the whole gaming environment -and take the time to give GGG "actionable" feedback - help GGG make Path of Exile more fun for everyone else. Charan has done a tremendous amount (both in forums and game feedback) to help make Path of Exile more fun for everyone. I have a tremendous amount of respect for what he has done, and his willingness to take it on the chin every now and then to say what needs to be said. This doesn't mean I agree with everything, but if we all agreed all the time, the world would be a very boring place with only one song, one movie and one game ( Ground Slamming Discharging Marauder). Don't get me wrong - the theory crafters are fun to follow and learn from, but like a major sports team, they are focused on the final championship games, while the fans spend most of their time in the game by game victories. "The only legitimate use of a computer is to play games." - Eugene Jarvis PoE Origins - Piety's story http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2081910 Last edited by DalaiLama#6738 on Oct 21, 2015, 5:25:05 AM
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Who is 'they'? Players in general, Reddit posters or GGG? I'm confused. You sounded like you are somehow arguing with me, but I don't see how since I generally agree with what you said.
With one small clarification: the statistic that the majority of players don't even reach maps is a bit misleading. I am 99,99% certain that the majority of players who stay in the game for more than a month play mostly maps. Everyone I've ever had in friend list plays maps, even if some take a while to reach that stage. We can't count the ones who give the game a try and leave it. An experienced player ignoring maps sounds like a minority to me. Doesn't mean his feedback is less valuable, perhaps it's even more so since little people bother to pay so much attention to the pre-mapping part of the game. Just talking about the perception that mapping is exclusive content for a few players. You have to be realistic about these things. Logen Ninefingers Last edited by Bars#2689 on Oct 21, 2015, 5:08:34 AM
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" Certainly not you. I meant if that was what "they" - the Redditors - thought. I will go back and edit my post to make that clear - sorry. "The only legitimate use of a computer is to play games." - Eugene Jarvis
PoE Origins - Piety's story http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2081910 |
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No worries, it's all clear now. Anyway, I don't think the 'let's hate Charan' bandwagon on Reddit consists of people who view things as objectively as you in your explanation why his feedback is valuable. You are arguing from the standpoint of 'what's good for the game'. They are hating Charan because he tends to act superior, which, combined with his demonstrated high material status and lack of in-game e-peen inches, is guaranteed to make certain people flip out. It's a personal and emotional reaction, not an objective and rational one.
The rational reaction to people one finds annoying or unpleasant in an online community is to ignore them. It's much easier on the nerves. As they say, hate is not the opposite of love, indifference is. You have to be realistic about these things. Logen Ninefingers Last edited by Bars#2689 on Oct 21, 2015, 5:34:34 AM
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" Having an upvote system for a free to play game forums is a really bad idea. Its pointless at best and a subject to abuse at worst. |
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Read the redditthread and what do I read some spammernames, the big wallet name and moderation.
If you want to shut down the forum, when you create an up+downvote system. "I am at -1 oh that must be that guy disagreeing with me I downvote him too" "Let's downvote everything for the lulz" And Chris statement that naming and shaming didn't work is just false. It worked really well, till somebody who had some quarrel with Sonata(mod at that time) decided to shame him and Sonata defended himself and has proven that he was indeed innocent. The shaming thread even included pictures of people holding a dagger and using whirling blades to steal items. Reddit is a low effort place. People who can't express themselves resulting shunning the forums are there. In reddit every stupid meme receives tons of upvotes. The short version would be "First" posters receiving upvotes in the news threads. This isn't supposed to be naming and shaming because then the reddit link would be gone as well. You see many upvotes as reason naming Charan. But why? To me the reason is simple Charan is well-read, knowing how to express himself and low quality posters don't understand his responses and interpret it as "He bullies me, GGG favoritism" Even native speakers could learn some old fashioned words from him. If you see that responses like: " You can easily understand what kind of trolls are there. I think Charan has posted his opinion on reddit once last year on CJ or his Charan acc and it's entirely true. Most names I see there left the forums 2013 anyway after the "Ad Hominem" post removal. I only remember a few but most of them were posting stuff like "You are so stupid that you don't see why you are wrong" instead of elaborating. Where I indeed agree with some postings are those passive aggressive postings and derailments. Well the only thing left are derailments since I don't see the enough threads in feedback that the passive aggressive posters can annoy them of the forums. |
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" That's one of the reasons. Online forums resemble the social structure - and unwritten rules - of a school. When someone at school acts and speaks in a certain way and makes others feel inferior, they lash out. 'You are smarter and your presence is hurting my fragile ego - I'll beat you up or humiliate you to hurt you back and assert my dominance in other areas'. It's a natural and understandable reaction. When people lash out here, they get slapped by the moderators. Charan exacerbates the problem in a few ways: first, he also demonstrates financial superiority to rub more salt in the wound, and second, in this environment he can safely act superior and not get punished for it, which means he doesn't develop internal filters and modifiers to his behaviour. People go to Reddit where they release their pent-up frustration and associate Charan bashing with another, more global concern - moderation complaints. This creates an association: if you don't like the moderation, you are supposed to hate on Charan too. Since Reddit is a voting system, some perceptions can reach critical mass and turn into a mode of behaviour - you either condone it, or you get downvoted. Is Charan perfect? Far from it. He is arrogant. He probably doesn't even realise he often hurts people and he can't be bothered to tone his attitude down. I can associate, I have the same character flaws. Are the haters justified? Far from it. They are letting their ego and emotions cloud their judgement and spoil their online communication. Also, their negative reactions are sometimes reaching irrational levels. TLDR: Charan and some others, myself included, could try to be kinder and humbler. The Charan haters would benefit from developing a thicker skin and a less fragile ego. You have to be realistic about these things. Logen Ninefingers Last edited by Bars#2689 on Oct 21, 2015, 7:01:24 AM
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I'm like one of the kindest people out their like don't get me wrong I am a princess that gets anything that she wants and seems to stuck up but It's just fun when toying with people from time to time anyway.
And holy people apparently get mad when I do a signature line like ''Alligators with jetpacks on their back'' or flying cows with lasers on their ass or something you get the point. By all means if it makes them mad I tend to have a small sadistic side of me that seems to enjoy it simply because it's such a small thing and I'll continue to do it because It's funny to me. Yeah god dam right. http://i.imgur.com/H0ixbMX.jpg Dys an sohm
Rohs an kyn Sahl djahs afah Mah morn narr |
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On-topic of an upvote/downvote system.
1) GGG could create premium forum accounts. - for the price of a small fee, the community could get access to such an account (like 5 euro's?, maybe less) note : the monetary contribution is merely there to ensure a certain seriousness when visiting the forums and utilizing the tools available to such an account, because whether we like this or not, monetary contribution does indeed imply this by nature. People are more appreciative of things they have spend money on. 2) Premium forum accounts could get 5 upvotes a day to utilize as they see fit. note : the aim here is to limit the amount of upvotes possible in one day as to ensure they are utilized correctly and to deter abusive scenario's. The system would also only allow for upvotes, this naturally creates a down-vote/up-vote system without the negative abuse cases associated with a down-vote system. Throw in some extra forum avatars or what have you for premium forum accounts to account for the monetary contribution past forum commitment.(forum activity related fluff) On-topic of the forum itself 1) implement the GGG tracker on the main forums directly. It is entirely understandable that some people don't wish to interact with the community while still being interested in the most reliable information, which is what the tracker provides. 2) update the forums functionality, it is indeed quite outdated like mentioned in the reddit post. Stuff like e-mail notification when people respond to your thread, when your being quoted a list of threads created by yourself etc... All small things that combined provide a much more pleasant browsing experience. Peace, -Boem- edit : @bars,
Spoiler
while a correct assessment, the annoying thing to me is the fact the intelligence is present to acknowledge these maters and correct or anticipate when required. Which is not the case. And this fundamentally undermines my view of him being intelligent, which i think he is not, he's smart but not intelligent in my opinion.
Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes Last edited by Boem#2861 on Oct 21, 2015, 7:13:45 AM
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