I am lucky, therefore game is fine

"

miljan wrote:

I am complaining that there is useless grind in the game to get to the new content.

truth be told, grind is a staple in pretty much every game in this genre.
having said that, I feel Path Of Exile just takes it to the next level of bad, in several ways:

1) masking the grind. it's something great ARPGs do extremely well: you get randomized "quests" which are the same thing really, but don't feel like it. you get zones that RNG only switched around a bit, but enough to feel somewhat new. you may even get new randomized bosses, to keep the blood flowing to the brain.
Path Of Exile does very little to mask the grind. when you grind, you just feel every minute of it in this game. bear-bones hardcore, and definitely not in a good way.

2) RNG-locked content. can't really name a single game besides PoE which does that like PoE does. it's a travesty. it's a main reason (if not THE main reason) I hate PoE's RNG design so much. more than loot a.k.a risk/reward (or rather, lack of it).
content can be tough. content can be locked behind way-out-of-you-league-until-you-feel-strong-enough difficulty (see Median for a notable example). content can be locked behind mandatory quests. content can even be locked by gear and we will get to that in a second - but it should NEVER be locked by dice.

3) gear. risk/reward. gear-checks for difficulty - often replacing AI or interesting encounters with mere one-shot number-crunching - while at the same time not rewarding the player with better dice for performing better in harder situations - serve to intensify senseless grind rather than actual "targeted", challenge-driven grind which simply feels better. and together with (1) and (2) above, this turns into a real clusterfuck of frustration.

"

johnKeys wrote:

"

miljan wrote:

I am complaining that there is useless grind in the game to get to the new content.

truth be told, grind is a staple in pretty much every game in this genre.
having said that, I feel Path Of Exile just takes it to the next level of bad, in several ways:

1) masking the grind. it's something great ARPGs do extremely well: you get randomized "quests" which are the same thing really, but don't feel like it. you get zones that RNG only switched around a bit, but enough to feel somewhat new. you may even get new randomized bosses, to keep the blood flowing to the brain.
Path Of Exile does very little to mask the grind. when you grind, you just feel every minute of it in this game. bear-bones hardcore, and definitely not in a good way.

2) RNG-locked content. can't really name a single game besides PoE which does that like PoE does. it's a travesty. it's a main reason (if not THE main reason) I hate PoE's RNG design so much. more than loot a.k.a risk/reward (or rather, lack of it).
content can be tough. content can be locked behind way-out-of-you-league-until-you-feel-strong-enough difficulty (see Median for a notable example). content can even be locked by gear and we will get to that in a second - but it should NEVER be locked by dice.

3) gear. risk/reward. gear-checks for difficulty - often replacing AI or interesting encounters with mere one-shot number-crunching - while at the same time not rewarding the player with better dice for performing better in harder situations - serve to intensify senseless grind rather than actual "targeted", challenge-driven grind which simply feels better. and together with (1) and (2) above, this turns into a real clusterfuck of frustration.

Yea. There is grind in every game like this, but in PoE case, there is to much of it. Will edit my post to make it more clear.

"

Its unfair because new content is put behind a long grind wall where you need to grind the same content. And its hugely unbalance in PoE compared to any other arpg on the market.

There is no "new content put behind a long grind wall." Access to all 4 acts is free at any time which is the entire story length of the game.

The only thing remotely walled would be farming pieces for aztiri (other then gearing for her your not grinding your brains out to fight her). Then the map system which is gated by RNG, which is reused content that you already played acts 1-4 with a little variety.

Outside of that your grinding the same content to begin with anyway.

If we "lowered" the amount of grinding to "gain more content" (which is what, items in your definition) We didn't gain or lose any content ~.~ People are just bitching because they don't realize PoE still is 4 out of 10 acts complete and want to play it 5000 (or more) hours because games have endless content or some shit. At least johnkeys can suggest something like the bounty/adventure mode in D3 and rifts.

Doesn't even have to do anything with my original point, which was for any game supposed to be played over a long time. Casual I maybe play 1 hours every 2 days isn't an good excuse since you would never get to the point where it mattered anyway in a league.

"

miljan wrote:

Never played final fantasy , but more games like planetside tournament, baldur's gate, fallout, kotor and similar.

I ROFL'd.

"

RagnarokChu wrote:

People are just bitching because they don't realize PoE still is 4 out of 10 acts complete and want to play it 5000 (or more) hours because games have endless content or some shit.

I don't think the 10 acts thing will happen. it was a nice dream for a young 2012 GGG, but I believe at this point Chris and the guys realize what it would take, to produce 6 more acts with the scale of Act 3 or Act 4's content.
a whole new Grinding Gear game, would probably take less effort.

the story mode in Path Of Exile is already one of the longest among ARPGs, when you take into account the 4 acts are actually 12 (Normal, Cruel, Merciless).
they are not where you typically feel the grind. especially not when RNG is in a good mood, and you actually get all the extras: Vaal Zones. Boxes. Rogue Exile/Warband encounters. Invaders. Beyond. Master Missions... like I said previously: little things that mask the repetition. conceal the grind.

but Maps are. heck I have a wall-of-text worth of reasons why Maps in their current state is the worst-feeling BS grind-your-brains-out I played in the last 6 years (at least).
and yet GGG continue to nerf the already largely-unbiased RNG which guards the gate to the end-game, and for what? for the motherfucking economy, because apparently Maps being trade-able (like anything else in this game) is enough reason to slaughter the fun.
if you could get some nice +1 (hell, +2) drops, Michael Bay's Carto Boxes, and awesome Zana missions before The Awakening... guess what? you better pray to RNG now.
you didn't have to, in TL2. in Titan Quest. in Median XL. in other games where there is an "end game" after the normal content.
nothing stopped you from happily entering a level 9000 map of doom with a level 50 char, and getting one-shot by the first thing that sneezed in your general direction. and then you'd set it as a goal, level and gear like crazy and attempt it again knowing it was always there waiting for you to try again when you are ready.
in PoE, it's when RNG is ready. that sickens me.

Could we possibly close this thread and allow players to see something else than this in forum for once ? Thanks.

This thread brings nothing since a while now.

"

RagnarokChu wrote:

"

Its unfair because new content is put behind a long grind wall where you need to grind the same content. And its hugely unbalance in PoE compared to any other arpg on the market.

There is no "new content put behind a long grind wall." Access to all 4 acts is free at any time which is the entire story length of the game.

The only thing remotely walled would be farming pieces for aztiri (other then gearing for her your not grinding your brains out to fight her). Then the map system which is gated by RNG, which is reused content that you already played acts 1-4 with a little variety.

Outside of that your grinding the same content to begin with anyway.

If we "lowered" the amount of grinding to "gain more content" (which is what, items in your definition) We didn't gain or lose any content ~.~ People are just bitching because they don't realize PoE still is 4 out of 10 acts complete and want to play it 5000 (or more) hours because games have endless content or some shit. At least johnkeys can suggest something like the bounty/adventure mode in D3 and rifts.

Doesn't even have to do anything with my original point, which was for any game supposed to be played over a long time. Casual I maybe play 1 hours every 2 days isn't an good excuse since you would never get to the point where it mattered anyway in a league.

Man. Act 4 is not the last content in the game. You have new areas/maps and bosses that are not in story mod of the game. Maps that use a different color sheme (time of day), hand crafted template to make it a new content with addition of new mob placements. New bosses that have additional and different skills, new unique maps with different rule sets, beyond monsters, uniques that are needed to make some builds. I mean there is a lot of content that is not in the story mod.

If the only thing you count as new content is new tile sets and whole new monster models, than no games has more content than 1h.

Also poe is not made with 10 acts in mind. As chris said, the story of poe and content they designed the game around from beginning (story and number of acts) is the one we got with this 4 acts, and anything after that will be added as they go if people support them.

We started to talk about this content because you assumed that grinding is new content, witch it isnt, and that lowering the time you need to grind to advance and see new content will make the game somehow have less content. And that is not correct also. People are not complaining that they should finish the game in 10h, that the content the game has is to long so they cant finish it all with their casual play. No, they are complaining that they are grinding the same content to get to the new one (from maps, to items and similar) for far to long, that the item progression, map progression, and generally balance is extremely bad, especially if you do not trade.

"

miljan wrote:

"

RagnarokChu wrote:

"

Its unfair because new content is put behind a long grind wall where you need to grind the same content. And its hugely unbalance in PoE compared to any other arpg on the market.

There is no "new content put behind a long grind wall." Access to all 4 acts is free at any time which is the entire story length of the game.

The only thing remotely walled would be farming pieces for aztiri (other then gearing for her your not grinding your brains out to fight her). Then the map system which is gated by RNG, which is reused content that you already played acts 1-4 with a little variety.

Outside of that your grinding the same content to begin with anyway.

If we "lowered" the amount of grinding to "gain more content" (which is what, items in your definition) We didn't gain or lose any content ~.~ People are just bitching because they don't realize PoE still is 4 out of 10 acts complete and want to play it 5000 (or more) hours because games have endless content or some shit. At least johnkeys can suggest something like the bounty/adventure mode in D3 and rifts.

Doesn't even have to do anything with my original point, which was for any game supposed to be played over a long time. Casual I maybe play 1 hours every 2 days isn't an good excuse since you would never get to the point where it mattered anyway in a league.

Man. Act 4 is not the last content in the game. You have new areas/maps and bosses that are not in story mod of the game. Maps that use a different color sheme (time of day), hand crafted template to make it a new content with addition of new mob placements. New bosses that have additional and different skills, new unique maps with different rule sets, beyond monsters, uniques that are needed to make some builds. I mean there is a lot of content that is not in the story mod.

If the only thing you count as new content is new tile sets and whole new monster models, than no games has more content than 1h.

Also poe is not made with 10 acts in mind. As chris said, the story of poe and content they designed the game around from beginning (story and number of acts) is the one we got with this 4 acts, and anything after that will be added as they go if people support them.

We started to talk about this content because you assumed that grinding is new content, witch it isnt, and that lowering the time you need to grind to advance and see new content will make the game somehow have less content. And that is not correct also. People are not complaining that they should finish the game in 10h, that the content the game has is to long so they cant finish it all with their casual play. No, they are complaining that they are grinding the same content to get to the new one (from maps, to items and similar) for far to long, that the item progression, map progression, and generally balance is extremely bad, especially if you do not trade.

There is no problem at all to experience all the content within an acceptable amount of time if you play reasonably smart and use all the tools available to you. This is like asking that the rules of soccer should be changed because you do not like to wear shoes. Trading is part of the game. Deal with it.

"

Faendris wrote:

There is no problem at all to experience all the content within an acceptable amount of time if you play reasonably smart and use all the tools available to you. This is like asking that the rules of soccer should be changed because you do not like to wear shoes. Trading is part of the game. Deal with it.

Actually this is like rules of soccer changed and they put some shit in it that doesnt have anything to do with it in the first place, so people ignore it, and want it changed. Trading is part of the game, yes, but it is extremely bad part that doesnt bring anything good to this type of games and actually bring a lot of problems and it needs to change (but this is off topic so dont want really to go there, and when I say trade, I mean balance around shitty economy, not trade perse, as almost every arpg has trading in it). And even with trade this problems are presented.

No, I will not deal with it, and I will be posting the problems this game has. So you should deal with that. If you can.