I am lucky, therefore game is fine
" Your argument is ridiculous. You're saying skill is involved because people intentionally put themselves at a disadvantage and use creative builds to overcome self-induced odds. That is just an outrageously stupid claim. Knowledge =| skill. Yes, it has a huge impact on success in a game, but they are not one in the same. I can know everything there is to know about every champion matchup and how to play any team comp, when to engage, when to split push, etc. in League of Legends, or know everything about every class and encounter in World of Warcraft, but if I go to PvP/Arena/raid and my actual game mechanics (aka skill) aren't there, I won't win. Period. Outside of knowing what builds work and what don't, there is no skill. You put on all auras and for most builds spam one key. Positioning does not matter, reaction time does not matter, map awareness does not matter, timing of abilities does not matter, mechanics do not matter. Essentially all of the normal 'skills' that go into being good at a video game have no impact on your success or failure. IGN Nellz Last edited by Vaux#0201 on Sep 15, 2015, 8:28:11 PM
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"This is a lot like saying poker has no skill element, that it is just luck. I'm not saying PoE is similar to poker, very different games, but I mean similar in how you prove they're games of skill: you point to competitions. If you looked at, say, a series of roulette competition results, you would see it is a game of luck because the top finishers would be random. This is not the case with PoE competitions at all... the same racers dominate races over and over, the same traders dominate temp leagues each league despite the resets, the same guys are first to level 100 each temp league as well... Basically, you're expecting me to believe that it's all coincidence, and I believe I've already discussed in thus thread how I feel about that ridiculous perspective. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
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" How is that at all what I'm saying? Yes, you have to know all of the poker hands, when to slow play, when to bluff, how to draw a bluff, etc.. But the same logic applies. If you know all of that, but you can't read people's tells, don't have the patience to play through a tournament effectively, can't control your own tells, etc. (aka the skills of the game not related to knowledge) you will not be successful in poker. Of course it's not coincidence, PoE competitions are chalked up to time. They're always the same people because they are a group of people that can and will consistently commit endless hours into competitions. Do you think someone that will play 10 hours/day for a week straight will be beaten by someone who has a job/family and plays 2-3 hours/day tops? IGN Nellz Last edited by Vaux#0201 on Sep 15, 2015, 9:02:23 PM
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"A good racer is a good racer, period. I consider it a bit of a shame that race season rankings are determined more by a "participation style" point system than just going by top finishes, but if you're paying attention you can spot the highly skilled guys who only play 4-6 races per season. Similar with PvP. When it comes to economy skill is a huge factor. Huge. You definitely have people making in two hours what would take days for others. The only one where you might have a point is first to 100. I don't think skill is irrelevant but nolifing seems to be the bigger factor. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
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This thread, oh my.
Knowledge is not a skill. Lol. Lol. Lol. Yeah, I bet you can be good at PoE with your flashy "dem-plays" without knowing how to get any gear, how skills work, or how you socket your shit.  I do wonder how far your characters got with your attitude towards knowledge. Not far? Who could have expected that?! Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance. Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. Last edited by Perq#4049 on Sep 16, 2015, 2:36:57 AM
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Even in games like LoL knowledge is the biggest part of skill. "Knowing when to split push" and stuff is the biggest thing that makes you better than baddies.
GGG banning all political discussion shortly after getting acquired by China is a weird coincidence.
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" see? you me and Perq actually agree on something. guess this means the end of the world is coming... Alva: I'm sweating like a hog in heat
Shadow: That was fun |
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How in the world is this hard for all of you to understand. In no part of my post did I say knowledge is not a critical factor with success.
Definitions of skill: 1. the ability, coming from one's knowledge, practice, aptitude, etc., to do something well. Doing something well that COMES FROM knowledge, yet is completely separate. 2. competent excellence in performance; expertness; dexterity. Performance 3. a craft, trade, or job requiring manual dexterity or special training in which a person has competence and experience Self explanatory on this last one I hope. Point is, knowledge and skill are in no way, shape or form one in the same. On your resume, under skills, do you list all of the things you've learned over the course of your career or in school? How smart you are? No, you list fundamental skills like working within a team and communication. Maybe you're all still in junior high so this is a hard concept to grasp? I don't know what else to think. IGN Nellz
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Skill is knowledge applied.
Granted, the "applied" part truly is important, but I believe the separation argument is still rather weak. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
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" I don't see how it is weak at all in the case of this game. The question is whether or not the game takes any skill to play. In my examples with League of Legends and World of Warcraft, those game take actual mechanical skill to achieve success with. If you know everything there is to know, yet you cannot perform on the skill level, you will fail, miserably. In PoE, knowledge is literally everything. You can have terrible positioning, terrible reflexes, not be able to target accurately, etc etc etc and you can still be perfectly successful - you're holding down / spamming 1-2 keys 95% of the time. I don't see how skill and knowledge being completely separate isn't a crucial part of the argument. If it takes no skill, you can't have risk/reward because there is no risk, just reward. IGN Nellz
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