Item Development - Information

I didn't read through all 33 pages, but the solution seems fairly simple to me:

Simply add the functionality for the Devs to add ToolTips for affixes. That way, any time they add something strange, complex or out of the ordinary, they can just add some helpful text when hovering over that affix.

Good day and good luck.





At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul...
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pneuma wrote:
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Skreeves wrote:
Does Icestorm have a base critchance? How high is it?
Can a Dev please answer this question so we can already make rought plans? (atleast IF it has Critchance!)

It seems to be very much like firestorm.

(from image) 5% base crit.
(from image) 1s base cast time.
(from image) 22 base mana cost.
(implied) 20% damage effectiveness.
(implied) 10 ice shards per second.
(implied) 1.3s base duration.
(implied) 25 base aoe for storm, 9 base aoe per ice shard.

... Yeah, this is really too much information to just omit. :(


I don't see 5% base crit in the image of the icestorm hotkey, but you can calculate it via:
(117+351)/2*.95+(117+351)/2*.05*1.5 = 239.85 (which matches the avg. damage). However, that calculation assumes the character has no added crit chance or crit multiplier. You'd get the same result if the spell had 4% base crit chance on a character with +12% crit multiplier from gear/passives.

And cast time in the image is 0.92 secs. We can only assume it's 1s base if we assume that the character has no added cast speed beyond the +9% given by the staff (1/1.09 = .917).

Someone at GGG should just make a page for Icestorm here, like this one:
http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Firestorm
(or dump the info on the boards/reddit and the community will update the wiki)
Never underestimate what the mod community can do for PoE if you sell an offline client.
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Antnee wrote:
As long as oskills (I learned a term today!) are kept to a minimum, I don't see the need for the panic. It's a nifty staff.

All of you are fans of a game that borrows heavily from other similar games; why are you all so shocked and terrified when things like this happen?


Go away Ant, making sense is not allowed on the internet ;p.
Support a free Hong Kong.

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with
sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
-Galileo Galilei
This i like <3
Okay heres my Endgame Ice Storm Tree. Can't wait to try this
Last edited by Frozen666 on Apr 8, 2015, 4:01:13 PM
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Vhlad wrote:
At 100-300 base damage with 1000 int, one might assume that Icestorm could be better than a lvl 21 q20 Firestorm. However, it's restricted to a staff that's pretty lackluster from a power gaming standpoint (2 hands for 9% cast, +1 support gems, 100% spell damage, and 1 extra support slot). You can double the spell damage and quadruple the cast speed with wands (while getting +1 all gems in armor), and add significant spell crit + crit mult. That in and of itself more than makes up for the 1 extra support slot. Then you must consider all of the sacrifices made in gearing and passive selection to achieve such a high int value.

Firestorm itself isn't very efficient in high level mapping either, so it's a pretty poor benchmark to aspire to. You don't generally see endgame firestorm builds.

This is really just a budget-friendly unique, since Icestorm can be cast using 6 supports without a fusing expense. Experienced players who can afford good gear will have more effective clearing options. It's unfortunate that an item granting a unique skill doesn't appear to scale well enough to facilitate end-game desirability. It may be fun to use while leveling but leveling with twink gear represents such a small fraction of total play time.

It's still a nice unique, but nothing that excites me. It's sort of like a tabula in that it allows a newer player to level and complete low maps without a large currency/time investment. However, the mechanics (building so strongly around int scaling), as well as the lack of information about icestorm itself, is not new player friendly. It's not a unique that a new player can find/trade for and incorporate into their existing build - they have to design around it from the get-go.

It seems like a noob trap, since it pigeonholes a player into gear and passive selections that are only effective with that staff, but the power of the staff plateaus at low level maps (beyond which clearing becomes overly inefficient relative to alternatives). A new player would be better off using flameblast.

PS.
The skill description from the hotkey tooltip is insufficient. We need to know:
keywords
radius
critical strike chance
damage effectiveness

Players can figure this out via testing but it would be better for GGG to release the info explicitly so if/when things are buffed/nerfed they can refer to specific values.

I agree completely that this is inferior to pretty much every "standard" build if you're comparing the two with ideal gear, but that is a place reached by very few players. So it's only +1 support to the small segment of the playerbase that are expected to acquire 6links. And no way this only gets you through low maps (assuming the unknown parameters are equal to firestorm), it's roughly a 6link pledge without the mana, -20 to 60 spell dmg and 10 less cast speed. Personally I find the wierd different power curve kind of interesting, where your strength explodes at 6sockets and a few int pieces, and then gradually increases as you get quality gems and more int/crit/castspeed on your other gearpieces.

I can see how the concept is less appealing to the most hardcore, aswell as permanent league players, but just because a build won't be able to reach a million dps, I think it's unfair to deem it a trap.

But we have yet to see the rest of the details about the skill, not to mention the other balance changes and new uniques, so we could both very well be complety wrong :D
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Garfunkel wrote:
"
when the expansion containing Act Four launches later this year

What? 'Later this year' imo means no Act IV in April-May... :(


They never said anything about april or may. Where did you get that from? They said april will be the month the hype starts. It may come out in july or august.
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Peripherally wrote:
Spoiler
"
yotmato wrote:


I can clear 78s with a Lifesprig, whats your point?

I dont have to earn anything, your attitude is extremely irritating, just because you dumped several thousand dollars in this game, doesnt make your opinion more important than any other player, i'm stopping here cause we are derailing the thread and it doesnt add anything to the discussion.

Have a good day


I have no intention of getting in the middle an argument on the interwebs but I did want to respond specifically to the underlined part. I don't think you should be getting irritated by what Charan is writing because his perspective is fairly unique (no pun intended) and he has an insight into the creation process of unique items that GGG's devs partially shared with him.

In this regard, he has literally earned the right to express his opinion because it is logically more qualified than your own or my own or that of most players. I get that it can sound 'elitist' or 'snotty' or whatever, but don't get caught up in semantics and miss the bigger picture: there are some concerns being expressed about the apparent new direction unique items are taking the game, places it has not been before and (apparently) were not allowed to go. Is this good or bad? Ultimately only time will tell, but there are some of us who have past experiences which give them a deeper insight into what this means than average folks (myself included). Why get irritated over this?



To bring myself on-topic, the new item itself is definitely cool *ahem*. It rewards investment into a particular kind of build (similar to
Doon Cuebiyari, something I might add is supporter-created), something I think most uniques should do by forcing players to not just spam the most powerful components of PoE together in a pot (ie "crit + atk speed + leech + random unique wep X = WIN") but go down a very specific road that hopefully lets the build eventually compete with others at the end of it. This is the point of all/most builds in PoE is it not? To take different roads toward the same end objective (good enough dps and clear speed and safety).

Obviously people will wonder if it'll be the next super-wep for endgame and that speculation is well and good. We need something to do to count down the days until Act4 I suppose.


Let's be clear one one very important distinction here:

He might be more knowledgeable about unique creation processes;
He might be more apt to discuss balance states;
He might be more insightful into current game state and design progress;
He might be single-handedly keeping GGG financially viable;
He might even be right about all the above...
Doesn't stop his rampant pretentiousness from making him sound like a colossal prick.

You don't have to be wrong to be a [Removed by Support], contrary to what the vast majority of internet arguements would have you believe. And he has a massive ego issue that butts it's head into the way of some very good talking points and makes it difficult to engage with an intelligent discussion for more than two or three back-and-forths.
Dude definitely has above average intelligence and wisdom scores, but he rolled triple ones on his charisma test.


Back onto the topic: Current state of the unique seems to be attracting a lot of ire without much reason aside from the rabid toxites foaming at the mouth as they are prone to do. I'm more concerned about the potential scaling of the skill granted, as it would take a colossal investment with our current tree and unique sets to even bring it up to a level 20 firestorm, much less surpass it - and let's not forget that firestorm is an extremely unloved skill in the first place. (The only way to make it viable afaik is to stack quality and duration on it, and you can only do half of that combo with icestorm.)
It's interesting, full credit. I'm just concerned about it's efficacy is all...


Also: Re all who say "but it locks the item in and that's bad, wah wah wah..."

Go play a summoner and then cry about locked items. You've got 30% of your endgame gear all worn and ready to go by level 33 usually.
"If you’re incompetent, you can’t know you’re incompetent. […] the skills you need to produce a right answer are exactly the skills you need to recognize what a right answer is." ~David Dunning
Last edited by Jared_GGG on Apr 8, 2015, 8:51:52 PM
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TikoXi wrote:
Also: Re all who say "but it locks the item in and that's bad, wah wah wah..."

Go play a summoner and then cry about locked items. You've got 30% of your endgame gear all worn and ready to go by level 33 usually.

Are you implying that you prefer things to stay bad or get worse? That's just contrarianism.

Calling other people 'rabid toxites' and '[Removed by Support]' just further weakens whatever point you're trying to make.

"
Vhlad wrote:
I don't see 5% base crit in the image of the icestorm hotkey, but you can calculate it via:
(117+351)/2*.95+(117+351)/2*.05*1.5 = 239.85 (which matches the avg. damage). However, that calculation assumes the character has no added crit chance or crit multiplier. You'd get the same result if the spell had 4% base crit chance on a character with +12% crit multiplier from gear/passives.

And cast time in the image is 0.92 secs. We can only assume it's 1s base if we assume that the character has no added cast speed beyond the +9% given by the staff (1/1.09 = .917).

It's not impossible for the character to have stats off the tree or other gear that we don't see, but going with Occam's Razor here, GGG needed to generate an image and just made a quick purpose-built character to show it off (along with the middle-mouse-bind spoiler).

Also all the talk of it being 'based off of Firestorm' helps the implication, as well.

Overall disagree with just putting everything in a wiki. The data needs to be in the game, especially if GGG is pushing for internationalization (unless they also plan to support international wikis). They can hide it wherever they want and make it go through a bunch of indirection to reduce the initial "information blast" of identifying a tasty unique, but it can't just be nowhere to be found.

For example, if an item says it has "Conduit", at least people can look on their tree and read its description. This proposed staff description is one of the rare and should-be-avoided cases where they plan to simply let the wiki take up all the slack instead of just being a handy compiled resource.
Last edited by Jared_GGG on Apr 8, 2015, 8:52:15 PM
"
Antnee wrote:
As long as oskills (I learned a term today!) are kept to a minimum, I don't see the need for the panic. It's a nifty staff.

All of you are fans of a game that borrows heavily from other similar games; why are you all so shocked and terrified when things like this happen?


On point. The best part is the same people getting upset are the same people that say:
"this mechanic is ok, that's how it was in D1 and D2"
"D1 and D2 didn't have this mechanic, why would you expect it in POE?"

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