The basic truth about all lessons is this; Of all living things on this planet, the Human Species is the only one that can share it's lessons globally, in a relatively short period of time. And in having this capability we can evaluate and apply lessons in ways other species can't. When you break this down into sub-categories, like game development in a specific genre, all developers within that group can evaluate each others "lessons learned", then find what may or may not be a good idea for their vision and model and move forward from there. However, they will not know if their choice was a good one or not until the public weighs in with their reaction to the changes. Now they have "new lessons learned" and the circle continues. What Blizzard, ArenaNet, GGG or any other developer does, they do from a standpoint of what they think will improve the game for their particular niche of the market. But to simply say what one company does, has nothing of value to offer to another company, is a little short-sighted. Even something that seems to be a mistake can lead to something good (research how Teflon was developed...it was an accident. http://www2.dupont.com/Teflon/en_US/products/history.html )
Where would the world be if we didn't share experiences and lessons with one another? Still making cave paintings perhaps?
|
Posted byRutRoh#3632on Mar 9, 2015, 1:00:57 PM
|
"
tackle70 wrote:
The only lesson I needed to learn, I learned early on: Diablo 3 is not a true sequel to Diablo 2, but rather a different and inferior game entirely.
Then I found out about PoE and all was well with the world :)
Amen.
D2 will always be the best ARPG ever though, it's what inspired POE to be made.
|
Posted byD_nasty#1006on Mar 9, 2015, 2:14:19 PM
|
"
BerMalBerIst1 wrote:
This is so fucking pathetic.
We should just rename this to the "D3/PoE General Discussion" forum for fucks sakes.
Moderation lately has been an absolute laughingstock. Whoever is behind the decisions there lately has no sense of logic or how the listed rules should be applied.
I'm so sick of it lol
/thread
/facepalm
This is no different than me going and getting some fucking shitpost about some shitty CoD game and putting it up here and saying "Hey what good things about this game do you think are in PoE too?"
Truly, utterly pathetic.
Now that you mention it, i wish i had a sniper rifle and that drone from that 1 MW lvl, was pretty OP.^^
|
Posted byDeletedon Mar 9, 2015, 2:22:39 PM
|
"
BerMalBerIst1 wrote:
"
DirkAustin wrote:
Now that you mention it, i wish i had a sniper rifle and that drone from that 1 MW lvl, was pretty OP.^^
|
Posted byDeletedon Mar 9, 2015, 2:39:38 PM
|
"
BerMalBerIst1 wrote:
This is so fucking pathetic.
We should just rename this to the "D3/PoE General Discussion" forum for fucks sakes.
(...)
Truly, utterly pathetic.
Maybe someone here should calm down, stop swearing and let people discuss calmly.
OP's question is entirely relevant.
D3 may not be to a game for everyone's taste, and I really hated it before RoS because it felt empty and utterly dominated by an endless grinding feast.
It is still not perfect, but so far, nearly every changes have been little (and slow) steps in the right direction: more fun, more rewards, rewards increase with playtime with less rng on the itemization side. It is still limited in terms of build diversity, which is why I usually play D3 2-3 weeks at a time and then stop until the next big patch. But hey, at least it's 2-3 weeks of blast every 2-3 months.
PoE has been a blast for me during the entire open beta: it felt deep, new, and there was plenty of experiment. Then the beta ended and launch was basically a non-event. Not much new to do, and successive leagues have been a painful repeat of leveling/grinding/gearing with constant nerfs. Masters brought very little QoL improvements, while every other painful things just stayed the same (layers and layers of piled up rng/gate mechanics, sub-optimized game engine, countless useless uniques and a false diversity of builds when most of them need a combination of specific uniques to work out in endgame, that you have to trade with an archaic system...).
Anyone wondering why PoE does not have the same success as D3 despite having a much stronger potential ? Budget ? No. TV commercials ? No.
Just some stubborn GGG developpers who lack basic psychology to evolve this good game into an AAA game.
Basic psychology: if you want to go for the hardcore way, be prepare to offer great rewards in exchange. Here we suffer and grind endlessly without any increased odds of looting anything we can use immediately. Add a completely silly crafting/socketing/linking system and this is just psychological torture.
Just the fact that developpers think that we should finally be grateful to pay 1500 fusings for a 6-link 3 years after proposing this game is just a big slap in the face. 99% of builds need at least one 6-link to fully bloom, yet, you may never get one even though you gather the right gear with the right uniques. And this is just one example of how wrong things are, and how the game is currently stuck into a dead end.
I have high hopes for Act 4, but if it is just new content with the same boring and non-rewarding system again, I'll be done for good with PoE. Developpers may want to be free and independant, but feedback is not always useless ranting, some of it should elicit some internal discussion and brainstorming about the game evolution. Espcially in a free-to-play model where you're dependant on micro-transactions to live.
|
Posted bytienbasse#4660on Mar 9, 2015, 5:16:35 PM
|
"
tienbasse wrote:
"
BerMalBerIst1 wrote:
This is so fucking pathetic.
We should just rename this to the "D3/PoE General Discussion" forum for fucks sakes.
(...)
Truly, utterly pathetic.
Maybe someone here should calm down, stop swearing and let people discuss calmly.
OP's question is entirely relevant.
D3 may not be to a game for everyone's taste, and I really hated it before RoS because it felt empty and utterly dominated by an endless grinding feast.
It is still not perfect, but so far, nearly every changes have been little (and slow) steps in the right direction: more fun, more rewards, rewards increase with playtime with less rng on the itemization side. It is still limited in terms of build diversity, which is why I usually play D3 2-3 weeks at a time and then stop until the next big patch. But hey, at least it's 2-3 weeks of blast every 2-3 months.
PoE has been a blast for me during the entire open beta: it felt deep, new, and there was plenty of experiment. Then the beta ended and launch was basically a non-event. Not much new to do, and successive leagues have been a painful repeat of leveling/grinding/gearing with constant nerfs. Masters brought very little QoL improvements, while every other painful things just stayed the same (layers and layers of piled up rng/gate mechanics, sub-optimized game engine, countless useless uniques and a false diversity of builds when most of them need a combination of specific uniques to work out in endgame, that you have to trade with an archaic system...).
Anyone wondering why PoE does not have the same success as D3 despite having a much stronger potential ? Budget ? No. TV commercials ? No.
Just some stubborn GGG developpers who lack basic psychology to evolve this good game into an AAA game.
Basic psychology: if you want to go for the hardcore way, be prepare to offer great rewards in exchange. Here we suffer and grind endlessly without any increased odds of looting anything we can use immediately. Add a completely silly crafting/socketing/linking system and this is just psychological torture.
Just the fact that developpers think that we should finally be grateful to pay 1500 fusings for a 6-link 3 years after proposing this game is just a big slap in the face. 99% of builds need at least one 6-link to fully bloom, yet, you may never get one even though you gather the right gear with the right uniques. And this is just one example of how wrong things are, and how the game is currently stuck into a dead end.
I have high hopes for Act 4, but if it is just new content with the same boring and non-rewarding system again, I'll be done for good with PoE. Developpers may want to be free and independant, but feedback is not always useless ranting, some of it should elicit some internal discussion and brainstorming about the game evolution. Espcially in a free-to-play model where you're dependant on micro-transactions to live.
Too much wall of text.
Who told you they dont discuss feedback and especially suggestions?
Besides, this entire thread sucks, its just GGG ass kissing 90% of the time and 99% of the time D3 bashing. Its stupid and should be locked or moved.
And youre kinda threatened GGG at the end there, so goodbye, you wont be missed.
|
Posted byDeletedon Mar 9, 2015, 5:32:45 PM
|
"
FadeXF wrote:
"
tienbasse wrote:
"
BerMalBerIst1 wrote:
This is so fucking pathetic.
We should just rename this to the "D3/PoE General Discussion" forum for fucks sakes.
(...)
Truly, utterly pathetic.
Maybe someone here should calm down, stop swearing and let people discuss calmly.
OP's question is entirely relevant.
D3 may not be to a game for everyone's taste, and I really hated it before RoS because it felt empty and utterly dominated by an endless grinding feast.
It is still not perfect, but so far, nearly every changes have been little (and slow) steps in the right direction: more fun, more rewards, rewards increase with playtime with less rng on the itemization side. It is still limited in terms of build diversity, which is why I usually play D3 2-3 weeks at a time and then stop until the next big patch. But hey, at least it's 2-3 weeks of blast every 2-3 months.
PoE has been a blast for me during the entire open beta: it felt deep, new, and there was plenty of experiment. Then the beta ended and launch was basically a non-event. Not much new to do, and successive leagues have been a painful repeat of leveling/grinding/gearing with constant nerfs. Masters brought very little QoL improvements, while every other painful things just stayed the same (layers and layers of piled up rng/gate mechanics, sub-optimized game engine, countless useless uniques and a false diversity of builds when most of them need a combination of specific uniques to work out in endgame, that you have to trade with an archaic system...).
Anyone wondering why PoE does not have the same success as D3 despite having a much stronger potential ? Budget ? No. TV commercials ? No.
Just some stubborn GGG developpers who lack basic psychology to evolve this good game into an AAA game.
Basic psychology: if you want to go for the hardcore way, be prepare to offer great rewards in exchange. Here we suffer and grind endlessly without any increased odds of looting anything we can use immediately. Add a completely silly crafting/socketing/linking system and this is just psychological torture.
Just the fact that developpers think that we should finally be grateful to pay 1500 fusings for a 6-link 3 years after proposing this game is just a big slap in the face. 99% of builds need at least one 6-link to fully bloom, yet, you may never get one even though you gather the right gear with the right uniques. And this is just one example of how wrong things are, and how the game is currently stuck into a dead end.
I have high hopes for Act 4, but if it is just new content with the same boring and non-rewarding system again, I'll be done for good with PoE. Developpers may want to be free and independant, but feedback is not always useless ranting, some of it should elicit some internal discussion and brainstorming about the game evolution. Espcially in a free-to-play model where you're dependant on micro-transactions to live.
What I think devs really need to do is this: deck their own characters out in the best in slot gear - and play their end game systems. Is the game still fun? Is the game replayable for weeks - months - years?
If it isn't, then you need to develop a fun activity.
Too often these developers are scared to give their players good gear... why? I always ask that question... why... why so frightened to give your players the goods? Are you so afraid that your end game concept is so unfun that once people get the best gear they will just leave your game? Maybe if the answer is yes to that, then you should look to better end game concepts.
if you give the players all the good stuff you got no players soon because a game that is easy is boring. if i give you a job you buy yourself a ferrari in a few years, if i give you the ferrari youre not going to want to do the job because you got what you want already.
And who says GGG doesnt play their game and more so, why should they? They make it, they dont have to play but they probably do if they can spare the time.
And endgame is what you make of it, so its different for everyone. to me act 10 will be the real endgame. Maps and lvl 100 are not endgame, those are just placeholders.
|
Posted byDeletedon Mar 9, 2015, 5:51:26 PM
|
|
What I get from that post: "D2 was trash, lets make something for console casuals!". While D3 can be a fun game, it's a hilariously bad sequel to D2 in almost every way. That's where PoE came to save the day. Today's PoE is a whole different story though (and not necessarily a worse one).
GGG banning all political discussion shortly after getting acquired by China is a weird coincidence.
|
Posted byXavderion#3432on Mar 9, 2015, 6:55:01 PM
|
"
FadeXF wrote:
What I think devs really need to do is this: deck their own characters out in the best in slot gear - and play their end game systems. Is the game still fun? Is the game replayable for weeks - months - years?
If it isn't, then you need to develop a fun activity.
Too often these developers are scared to give their players good gear... why? I always ask that question... why... why so frightened to give your players the goods? Are you so afraid that your end game concept is so unfun that once people get the best gear they will just leave your game? Maybe if the answer is yes to that, then you should look to better end game concepts.
no arpg has ever managed to have any endgame worth talking about after u have bis gear, in fact poe is a lot closer than any arpg has ever come to this. BiS gear should be virtually impossible to achieve in an arpg because it is a loot based game and when loot becomes meaningless and theres no way to upgrade or level up because you are max level with bis gear the 2 main drives for the player are gone. They have done their best to hold on to bis gear and max level being ridiculously hard to achieve on purpose, it is a goal every arpg should aim for because that is what gives the game its life, without it its just a top down shooter, might as well play geometry wars at that point.
I fundamentally disagree with the guy before talking about 6 links and 1500 fusing for the same reason. Basically you need to actually learn a bit more about the game because in torment I managed to get 4500 fusing saved up in the first 3 weeks, and im not even on the radar when it comes to really good players or people who know how to make serious moneys, if I can do it anyone can go it. Im no more skilled than anyone else, Im not some pro player, I didnt flip a single thing in order to get those fusing, didnt play any market simulator investment games. I just know this games pve mechanics, I know items and I know how to build a char on 0 investment and grind with it.
Its players unwilling to learn who have stuck themselves in a dead end. PoE actually has more success than D3 where it counts, D3 gets hype when they release an expansion for a while and then its dead, in the 2 years since PoE went into open beta its held its player base far more consistently and been seen as a far more respectable game.
no arpg ever gets to the point where it doesnt need more endgame activities, but ultimately we are playing a game with more endgame than any arpg ever created. If that doesnt live up to your expectations then your expectations are unrealistic.
I love all you people on the forums, we can disagree but still be friends and respect each other :)
|
Posted bySnorkle_uk#0761on Mar 9, 2015, 7:10:27 PM
|
"
DirkAustin wrote:
Besides, this entire thread sucks, its just GGG ass kissing 90% of the time and 99% of the time D3 bashing.
The whole thread was bait with some undertones that I suspect hoped to rehash a common whine topic in GD without blatantly bringing it up.
Bashing of D3 isnt a reason to lock it. Loving of GGG isnt a reason to lock it. Particularly since the inverse occurs all the time as well without a thread being locked.
There is nothing special about this thread -- at least no more than the other 'stuff' you see in GD.
Thanks for all the fish!
|
Posted byNubatron#4333on Mar 9, 2015, 7:24:04 PM
|
