Monsters that ruin the game (not a QQ thread, only pure feedback)

"

grepman wrote:

a lot of qq, less feedback

1. chimeras are good design. they are punishing you for having no physical mitigation their leap can be evaded but it sounds like you dont have a lot of evasion/acro/dodge either

leapers do a ton of physical damage. what the hell did you expect ?

2. this game is NOT about positioning. whoever told you that was a liar. as such, fast moving enemies dont do shit if you have defenses. armour and ECs make these enemies a joke. arctic armour makes them a joke. evasion, even though worse against smaller rapid hits than armour and ec's due to entropy model, will still help a ton

3. summoners. I fail to see what the fuck is the problem. poe is a game of aoe and has been so since open beta. read charan's thread for further details.

4.ice damage. it chills, it freezes. its easier than ever to deal with because of potions. quality your potions, make them last longer (base duration of a saphhire flask is 3.5 seconds with no quality, not one second). own anything. chills arent that bad, freezes were bad and now you have guaranteed immunity without having to gear certain uniques. dont see much of a problem here, if at all

tl;dr: you dont have defenses, and want to play this game by positioning/reflexes. that is not how poe is played. defenses arent optional, they are mandatory. defenses against physical damage...are mandatory if you dont want to die.

1) good design.. chimerals??? Oh my God... :/ Monsters that stack one ON another (and so causing desync too) are good design? :/

2) Evasion... yes here you are right: now i have a 40% dodge/52% evade toon and i get hit less... but too much hard those few times. And sincerely investing in endurance charges (via tree, or vias kaom sign) is a ball breaking mechanic, because the reduction is still too low (and all the charges of this world won't save from a stack of 7-8 chimerals all at once). What is so difficult for ggg to make physical mitigation A RESISTANCE LIKE ELEMENTAL/CHAOS ONES? -.- What is that idiotic armor formula? Why armor must not protect me against the hits vs that i need most protection (strong ones)? Bullshit. Arctic armour... WHAT??? O.o Try to defend yourself against blue chimerals (or, worse, against blue devourers...) with it. The reality is that for defending against physical (without using the immortal call) the only good way is stacking lightning coil with taste of hate. Wow, so much variety!!!! -.- What if i am planning an aoe mage and i need carcass jack? "No, coil or you die". What if i want a low life enabler shavronne/lorica? No, "fuck you moron, you put up our coil or go kill yourself". And if i need a voll protector for my coc? "Noooo, we decided that you must die, mothafucka!!! Put up your damn coil"!!! Splendid game design... sure... -.-

3) agree

4) ice is too much... plain and simple. Ice attacks are maybe the 50% of elemental attacks on enemies :/

"

Helpmegod wrote:

Add Devourers and Undying Evangelist here!

Agree...

"

Wispo wrote:

"

grepman wrote:

a lot of qq, less feedback

1. chimeras are good design. they are punishing you for having no physical mitigation their leap can be evaded but it sounds like you dont have a lot of evasion/acro/dodge either

leapers do a ton of physical damage. what the hell did you expect ?

2. this game is NOT about positioning. whoever told you that was a liar. as such, fast moving enemies dont do shit if you have defenses. armour and ECs make these enemies a joke. arctic armour makes them a joke. evasion, even though worse against smaller rapid hits than armour and ec's due to entropy model, will still help a ton

3. summoners. I fail to see what the fuck is the problem. poe is a game of aoe and has been so since open beta. read charan's thread for further details.

4.ice damage. it chills, it freezes. its easier than ever to deal with because of potions. quality your potions, make them last longer (base duration of a saphhire flask is 3.5 seconds with no quality, not one second). own anything. chills arent that bad, freezes were bad and now you have guaranteed immunity without having to gear certain uniques. dont see much of a problem here, if at all

tl;dr: you dont have defenses, and want to play this game by positioning/reflexes. that is not how poe is played. defenses arent optional, they are mandatory. defenses against physical damage...are mandatory if you dont want to die.

1) good design.. chimerals??? Oh my God... :/ Monsters that stack one ON another (and so causing desync too) are good design? :/

2) Evasion... yes here you are right: now i have a 40% dodge/52% evade toon and i get hit less... but too much hard those few times. And sincerely investing in endurance charges (via tree, or vias kaom sign) is a ball breaking mechanic, because the reduction is still too low (and all the charges of this world won't save from a stack of 7-8 chimerals all at once). What is so difficult for ggg to make physical mitigation A RESISTANCE LIKE ELEMENTAL/CHAOS ONES? -.- What is that idiotic armor formula? Why armor must not protect me against the hits vs that i need most protection (strong ones)? Bullshit. Arctic armour... WHAT??? O.o Try to defend yourself against blue chimerals (or, worse, against blue devourers...) with it. The reality is that for defending against physical (without using the immortal call) the only good way is stacking lightning coil with taste of hate. Wow, so much variety!!!! -.- What if i am planning an aoe mage and i need carcass jack? "No, coil or you die". What if i want a low life enabler shavronne/lorica? No, "fuck you moron, you put up our coil or go kill yourself". And if i need a voll protector for my coc? "Noooo, we decided that you must die, mothafucka!!! Put up your damn coil"!!! Splendid game design... sure... -.-

3) agree

4) ice is too much... plain and simple. Ice attacks are maybe the 50% of elemental attacks on enemies :/

yes chimerals are good design. so are evangelists and devourers. they are designed so you dont feel like a God when you dont have physical mitigation in form of armour, ECs, IC, AA, etc, just with acro and evasion

desync is a whole another issue. you notice how people dont have a problem with leapers (from sewers) and goats ? thats because those two dont deal as much damage as chimeras. no one ever complained about design of goat leapers desyncing (and they do desync), but everyone complains about chimerals. even though they do the same thing. know why ? damage.

I agree with you about LC/taste of hate. its indeed unfortunate that those items exist.

I dont agree with you about charges + armour (useless against 7 chimeras). my RF toon has 6k armour and 7 self-casted ECs with automated IC. Ive never came close to dying to chimeras in any map Ive ran.

the truth is once you have some armour and ECs evangelists, devourers are a joke. chimeras still do some damage (they deal a lot), but theyre really not scary.

evangelists, EK bosses, devourers, chimeras are all very dangerous for evasion and laughable with armour + 7 ECs/IC

Devourers are shitty design decause they do damage to you the same moment they pop out (without a single warning of their presence... at least chimerals make a sound a moment before hitting -from off screen -.-' - but devourers just pop out and already wrecks you). And for endurance charges.. well i know that EC will be changed drastically... and i don't want the immortality of IC (on a side note: a guy some weeks ago posted a link with the title "devourers don't give a fuck about my IC". Go see it mate... it is unbelievable O.o )

After following this thread Wispo, it can be summed up as veiled QQ.

Basically your stating all monsters you dislike because

a) you don't have a counter for it on your character

b) don't know the counter at all

c) want to be immortal in a game that is not designed with that intent

Which is all fine and dandy, except for the (not a QQ thread, only pure feedback) in the tittle.

so far you only stated that your character cannot handle certain monster designs effectively, which is more or less a pat on the back of whoever designed them at GGG office.

The only thing i can agree on is that certain monster type's need more telegraph upon activation. But even that, if you tackle the content like an exile who is scared to die even that won't be an issue since you will have seen those units from far away unless you are running downwards, which is a problem i could agree on. Top screen vision is far better then top-down.

Peace,

-Boem-

edit : typo

"

Boem wrote:

After following this thread Wispo, it can be summed up as veiled QQ.

Basically your stating all monsters you dislike because

a) you don't have a counter for it on your character

b) don't know the counter at all

c) want to be immortal in a game that is not designed with that intent

Which is all fine and dandy, except for the (not a QQ thread, only pure feedback) in the tittle.

so far you only stated that your character cannot handle certain monster designs effectively, which is more or less a pat on the back of whoever designed them at GGG office.

The only thing i can agree on is that certain monster type's need more telegraph upon activation. But even that, if you tackle the content like an exile who is scared to die even that won't be an issue since you will have seen those units from far away unless you are running downwards, which is a problem i could agree on. Top screen vision is far better then top-down.

Peace,

-Boem-

edit : typo

I dislike them because shitty mechanics. Only reason is this i swear

It is stupid that there is no sign of a devourer presence and then... well... that same sign (=the surfacing) is already an (unavoidable) source of damage.

It is stupid being hitted from offscreen (even walking towards "north") 7-8 times by monsters that seems to have longer vision (=2 screens away) than you (=1 screen "only").

The counters exist.. call them endurance charges for the lazy ones, or whirling blades for the snappy reflexes ones. But even if i (let's imagine..) have god like reflexes... how i am supposed to whirl away from a devourer for avoiding its damage... if the damage has been already dealt?

And why i cannot have the right to hate defilers? My toons can't handle them? False. A spray with incinerate and they are good bye. A cone of death coc ice spear and their minions are shattered. But... shitty mechanic again!!! They hide in the dark, and unnoticed resurrect skellies even from one room afar... and endlessly!!!

And why i cannot hate brutus, merveil, the carrion queens etc? Again: their minions go down fast... but all screen is a mess, and where is the counter play if i cannon walk in the room for how much it is filled with ads? Why an imaginary summoner of mine must spend tons of point for having ONE zombie/skelly/spectre more.. but enemies can summon entire armies?

And why if i don't take ondar guile... must be chilled again and again and again for all solaris temple and imperial gardens by those stupid archer statues? Heat flasks? Yes, but how much will they last against so many statues spamming the same ice shot so many times?

All dull... all slowered... all NOT FLUID. And not fluid is not fun...
Sorry for english.. it sucks i know

Your again complaining about "not having counters" on your character.

-Heat modifier of flasks on a non heal/mana potion will disable chill/freezing for its entire duration.

-Devourers pop-up and then they hit, simply walking over them with enough speed disables them from hitting you.(= dex part of the tree) You can also use potions while they pop-up (= more situated in the STR part of the tree)
And Intel has either crowd control or excessive buffer pools and should play tactical in that regard.

-defilers = devouring totem or detonate dead, if you lack those, that's a player choice and as such you will have to scout for defilers and finish them off before they resurrect the monsters.

- for the bosses, if they remove endless spawn-rates then you reduce the gear check or "entry level" of the next content, which might not be a good idea assuming balance is "okaish" in this regard, it would also heavily favor crit builds because of surgeon flasks.
If you cant kill the adds fast enough EVEN with a single target oriented character, then something is off and you don't meet the entry level of the difficulty increase.

Peace,

-Boem-

"

Boem wrote:

Your again complaining about "not having counters" on your character.

-Heat modifier of flasks on a non heal/mana potion will disable chill/freezing for its entire duration.

-Devourers pop-up and then they hit, simply walking over them with enough speed disables them from hitting you.(= dex part of the tree) You can also use potions while they pop-up (= more situated in the STR part of the tree)
And Intel has either crowd control or excessive buffer pools and should play tactical in that regard.

-defilers = devouring totem or detonate dead, if you lack those, that's a player choice and as such you will have to scout for defilers and finish them off before they resurrect the monsters.

- for the bosses, if they remove endless spawn-rates then you reduce the gear check or "entry level" of the next content, which might not be a good idea assuming balance is "okaish" in this regard, it would also heavily favor crit builds because of surgeon flasks.
If you cant kill the adds fast enough EVEN with a single target oriented character, then something is off and you don't meet the entry level of the difficulty increase.

Peace,

-Boem-

I have the counters, but the mechanics tend to give the game a general slowness that kills the fun. Is this the problem, because i have an entire stash filled with counters, but the game takes the way of forcing you to tone down the killing pace.

I will reply you point by point:

Heat flasks (not mana or health ones). How much one sipping will last? Let's say 5 seconds. 2 uses for every flask (e.g: granite flask of heat). Now... even if we assume that i have a CI exile (=no healt pots needed), and that my exile regens mana super fast (=no mana flask needed)... i have 5x2 (=10 uses) of heat suffix, right? 10 uses * 5 seconds= 50 seconds of chill immune. Too bad imperial gardens last at least 5 minutes, and a good 40% of enemies are statues :/

Devourers. High movement speed? Ok... so much rubber band effect magnet :/

Defilers. Detonate dead? Really mate? Are you saying me that i must explode little skellies one by one? Ball breaking... slwowness it s not fun. They should remove defilers instead, or making them able to resurrect undead ONE AND ONLY ONE TIME

Bosses army spam=check for next level of difficulty? Really? And tell me... what "check for the next difficulty" are those damn carrion queens that menstruate countless red bugs that obstruct your passages through the suspended wood bridges in barracks? Maybe the next content of difficulty is across the bridges, huh? :/

I respect your opinions, but please don't defend the undefendable :/

"

Wispo wrote:

I respect your opinions, but please don't defend the undefendable :/

I don't have to, your post's speak volumes.

Peace,

-Boem-

"

Boem wrote:

After following this thread Wispo, it can be summed up as veiled QQ.

Basically your stating all monsters you dislike because

a) you don't have a counter for it on your character

b) don't know the counter at all

c) want to be immortal in a game that is not designed with that intent

Which is all fine and dandy, except for the (not a QQ thread, only pure feedback) in the tittle.

so far you only stated that your character cannot handle certain monster designs effectively, which is more or less a pat on the back of whoever designed them at GGG office.

The only thing i can agree on is that certain monster type's need more telegraph upon activation. But even that, if you tackle the content like an exile who is scared to die even that won't be an issue since you will have seen those units from far away unless you are running downwards, which is a problem i could agree on. Top screen vision is far better then top-down.

Peace,

-Boem-

edit : typo

well said Boem