Some thoughts on loot tension, and possible designs
|
Like I said before, a PvE loot tension mechanic which gives more time for good stuff and less time for junk would actually clean the screen of junk automatically.
I'm glad to see many non-PA players speaking up in this thread. Although the non-PA group is still a minority, social tools like guilds and friend lists ease the pain of finding like-minded players significantly. Thus, it might be a little too QQ to say it's too hard to find a SA/FFA group. But that's not really what I'm exploring here. It's more about the concept of loot options as a league-defining trait, as opposed to an option in a menu. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Feb 20, 2015, 7:48:46 AM
|
|
" For that to work, to remove actual junk (defined subjectively) GGG would have to incorporate an effective loot filter.. at which point, so would an effective loot filter ;) Devolving Wilds
Land “T, Sacrifice Devolving Wilds: Search your library for a basic land card and reveal it. Then shuffle your library.” |
|
"Not necessarily. An effective loot filter would have to know what to show you, and what not to show you. An effective loot clearer would have to know how long to show you things. Although miscalculations by the system would suck in either instance, the latter is far more forgiving of designer error. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
|
|
|
I guess what I don't understand is why the game can't also have a relaxing mode of play-- why it's shocking to you that I find relaxation in standard?
If POE is meant to be stress-inducing 100% of the time, believe me, the player retention rate would drop like a fuckin stone. A comprehensive, easy on the eyes loot filter: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1245785 Need a chill group exiles to hang with? Join us: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1251403 Last edited by Antnee#4468 on Feb 20, 2015, 7:53:40 AM
|
|
"If HC level of intensity, then no doubt. Standard exists for a reason. If half that intensity - probably would still drop. However, I believe there is a sweet spot, somewhere more intense than SC currently is, but far less intense than HC, where it would actually add value overall. For what it's worth, I think that sweet spot is about 10 times closer to current SC intensity than it is to HC intensity. That is why I keep stressing softballing on the timers. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Feb 20, 2015, 8:02:41 AM
|
|
|
Have you considered hooking electrodes up to your genitals set to discharge an electrical current on a timer if you don't finish maps fast enough?
The stress will be palpable! Of course, you might start to like it if you are a bit of a masochist and since you are on the PoE forums, you clearly are. "Danger is like jello, there's always room for more." http://www.twitch.tv/vejita00 Last edited by CliveHowlitzer#0568 on Feb 20, 2015, 8:33:58 AM
|
|
" Depends on what level of electrical stimulation you're talking about as certain levels can actually yield very pleasurable genital sensations and make the person want more of it. Wouldn't even be anything near 'masochistic' in that regard. :P Last edited by Tanakeah#5640 on Feb 20, 2015, 9:54:40 AM
|
|
|
I have refrained from commenting on this topic as I have been accused of having an "agenda" and that this is the only topic I post about. This may be partly true, but it’s also the very reason I came to the forums - again and again I have seen games get dumbed down as purposefully complicating mechanics get removed because of player intolerance. (complaining, crying, qq'ing etc) Meanwhile players who enjoyed those mechanics rarely stand up and have a voice defending these kinds of things because they are too busy playing the game. (Many of us never dreamed GGG would have caved on the looting rules, and so never bothered to go to the forums to defense things like this) - honestly the worst I ever though would happen was extending the timers. Anyhow...
With that said, my only gripe with the current system (loot options) is that there is no incentives to play SA or FFA - with new game mechanics making looting more difficult (a host of bloodline mods explode - or do damage in the area loot is falling) its more than clear to everyone. I think that in general the player base will always choose the path of least resistance if its convenient and PA loot is exactly that for groups. I don’t think they need to do much, they don’t even need to make it actually worthwhile, just some small ‘officially stated’ bonus. (a secret – or unannounced bonus would do nothing) I think that would be enough to get some public SA or FFA games going from time to time and not just feel like we are doing it to be ‘gaming hipsters’ or d2 diehards. This way, everyone can keep playing PA like normal - friends and guilds might be more inclined to use SA or FFA if they are sharing loot anyway, and players who enjoy the harsh 'cut-throat' feeling might still get a dose of it from time to time. Also for your consideration, I found this post on reddit from one of my favorite devs, before GGG added looting options:
Spoiler
[–]BrianWeissman_GGG 63 points 2 years ago* Hey guys, just wanted to throw in my feedback on this issue. We're well aware there there are a lot of different opinions about contested loot in POE, and while we're pretty happy with the current implementation, it is far from set in stone. Fundamentally, POE is a game about tough choices, about making your way in a harsh world with few initial resources. This is a theme that runs through the whole game, from the starting areas, to the cryptic early NPCs, to the lack of respecs, and the quickly ramping difficulty. Having quasi-FFA loot definitely falls right in line with the general cutthroat, competitive aesthetic of Wraeclast. However, we pay a lot of attention to feedback, and we absolutely recognize that the current system is pretty brutal on some players, especially new players, or those with slower connections or computers. I know exactly how it feels to have loot snagged out from under your nose, having played Diablo 2 for many many years. It's a frustrating experience that often makes you question why you're even playing in the first place. Conversely, in a good group that has some basic "gentleman's rules", the current FFA-timer implementation VASTLY speeds up the pace of game play. We've tinkered around with a lot of different loot timers, and we've found that when we extend them, even by a little bit, the pace of the game drags considerably. You want to just be moving along all the time, going from pack to pack, blowing stuff up. The last thing you want to be doing is standing around every time some stuff dies, waiting for all your little bars to decay. When everyone agrees to play by a fundamental set of rules, be they real "FFA" or "leave stuff alone that's not yours", the loot tends to average out pretty well anyway. Groups can also verbally punish or shame a player who appears to be abusing the drop system, and you do decide who you party with. Ultimately, we believe that having an FFA-based system is good for the general health of the game. When you play in a group with completely player-bound, invisible-to-others loot like Diablo 3 or Torchlight 2, you really get the feeling that you're playing in a bubble. The other players with you might as well be bots, and there is little shared or vicarious joy in lucky stuff that drops. That's something we're definitely trying to avoid. POE has proven to be extremely popular since our Open Beta release, far more popular than we could have expected, so we're obviously catering to a pretty wide audience. A certain portion of that audience is put off by the cutthroat nature of loot distribution in the game, and we're not deaf to those concerns. This is an issue that is going to be going through a lot of internal discussion in the weeks and months ahead. Thanks for the understanding and for the great feedback. I really appreciate all the time people have taken to post here, as well as their passion for the game! |
|
|
I could live with a small IIQ bonus for the more 'risky' styles. I think that'd be better than making league-specific changes to drops. I play standard in part because I don't have the 'oh well, shit happens, no wuckers' mentality when it comes to losing hours I've put into a character or losing the 1/23 billion chance drop when it gets ninja'd.
|
|
" I think player choice is critical in keeping the game enjoyable for all. PA tends to be the default choice because for most players it has less disadvantages than the others. IMO, the way to restore real choices to the loot allocation menu is to make the "riskier" choices more rewarding, while still eliminating the problematic aspects of them. 1)Remove player collision, so that there isn't any standing on loot. 2)Increase short allocation timer so there's a reasonable chance to notice and nab the loot. 3)Loot filtering options(the current version is is a good example of why Dev choice and player choice can collide to the detriment of the gaming experience) 4)Elimination of the all or none aspects. If Maps can be allocated to maker, I'd think there could be allocation within allocation modes: Permanent Allocation wouldn't have to mean that all drops were allocated, but it could mean that (numbers just thrown in for illustration) 90% of uniques dropped are allocated, 75% of currency allocated, 50% of rares allocated, 35% of remaining allocated. 5) Short allocation could have longer timers for certain classes of items. 6)SA would get a slight boost in quality, and FFA could get a small boost in quality and quantity (more loot to look through increases the challenge of getting that loot doesn't it?) 7) In FFA - instead of allocating to a player - there would be allocated highlighting. Anyone could grab an item at any time, but initially, the drops would appear greyed out to other players. This would give one player a brief window of advantage, but not a guarantee that they would get the item. After a short timer expired, the highlighting would appear to all players. 8)Slightly increased map drops for SA and a little more still for FFA public map groups. 9)double the number of wisdom scroll drops in FFA public games 10)some kind of intelligent way of spraying loot in FFA, so that ranged players still have a reasonable chancea at many drops, but players who are taking more hits have a better chance. "The only legitimate use of a computer is to play games." - Eugene Jarvis PoE Origins - Piety's story http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2081910 Last edited by DalaiLama#6738 on Feb 26, 2015, 6:52:29 PM
|
|
