Some thoughts on loot tension, and possible designs

Fine, but will your proposed change actually have the impact you're seeking?

Before PA: 'aww crap, I'll get loot ninjas, I'll just go solo'

After PA: 'aww crap, the guy's set it to SA, everyone forgets to set PA, I'm just gonna go solo'

Now: 'hey, that auto-set feature is cool, I might actually party a bit because PA's more fun'

If your proposal is implemented, will it make the game less autopilot and more loot-tensiony? Or put downward pressure on party numbers? (along with CoC, summoners and a few other mechanics)

As an aside regarding what Moosifer posted, game design feels both 'hardcore' and elegant when it teaches you to be a better player. A 10% xp penalty at lvl 99.9 is unlikely to actually achieve that (but realistically you're probably so addicted by that point you'll suck it up). Similarly, I don't see how clicking faster on loot will teach me to be a better player; rather it'll teach me to more often throw my party members under the bus (not gonna be running in to get stunlocked by Temple piety in case it affects my loot chances!)

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davidnn5 wrote:

Fine, but will your proposed change actually have the impact you're seeking?

Might help if you read it. I was advocating a PvE loot tension mechanic for Standard.

Much as I might say exactly the same, when a conversation devolves to parties accusing one another of not reading something, it's generally time to bow out ;)

If you stick around, perhaps you can explain how you believe a PvE loot tension mechanic would drive down party play.

I admit the "y u no read?" thing isn't very classy.

Ok. My view is based off observation and general chatting with Guildies and other people.

Prior to introducing a default allocation, people seemed more hesitant to party, and commonly gave the loot allocation as a reason to not enter public parties ("yeah I would go in rotations but it's always SA and I hate fighting for loot on my bad connection/with my slow movespeed etc").

Now I rarely hear about loot allocation. I can say from personal experience that loot tension is an added reason not to party with certain people who have fast-clearing builds - they're already clearing rooms before you even get there, giving them free first pick just makes me go looking for a group of guildies to party with instead. On PA. :) Doubled or tripled timer might mitigate that, but we're talking about the type of person who actively wants to ditch the party so they can mop up all the good kills/items with party IIQ without having to actually, like, party.

I hadn't considered parties in which party members are a great distance apart. I could easily see this becoming an issue if the design of the system doesn't take this into account.

First of all, there would need to be a clear visual representation of off-screen drops. This could be done using the minimap. Established colors (biege for currency, etc) could be used.

Second, the timer system would need to account for this in a fair manner. Running several screens to get an item would be absolutely maddening if the timer expires before players get there, so in this case it would need to be more than generous.

However, the net effect of such a system would still be to encourage parties to stick close to one another. Although it could tolerate a player breaking from the pack, dying monsters would draw the other party members, bringing the group back together. Sustained lone wolf playstyles wouldn't mix well with partying under any kind of SA (PvP or PvE). Perhaps that's a good thing.

Just wanted to drop in here and mention that SA has been VERY positive for me playing with friends. We tend to help each other with looting, thought it is nice to see who was 'assigned' loot and not be forced to let only them pick it up. FFA loot is good but I really like SA.

the day permanent loot became an option, the game died a bit for me, because i liked discussing about drops ingame, that's how i came into contact with alot of players.

sure it is a problem as soon as a mirror, eternal or high end unique drops but what prevented them to restrict pa mode only to exalt, eternals, mirrors and uniques?

I appreciate the want for better tension, but I can't help but wonder if loot is the wrong place to focus it, or if there simply doesn't exist a good sense of tension elsewhere. Good, as in, we hear about all of the bad stressors in party play--screen clutter, disco particle spam, FPS drops, and worse--but seldom hear about "how intense" that encounter was. It seems, it's too easy as it is to not even notice there was an encounter behind all of that noise, and imho directing tension further away from that encounter would just add more noise.

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geradon wrote:

the day permanent loot became an option, the game died a bit for me, because i liked discussing about drops ingame, that's how i came into contact with alot of players.

sure it is a problem as soon as a mirror, eternal or high end unique drops but what prevented them to restrict pa mode only to exalt, eternals, mirrors and uniques?

I still always play on free for all. If you don't like it, don't party with me. As far as I am concerned, PA isn't in the game.