Some thoughts on loot tension, and possible designs

"

tmaciak wrote:

There is very easy solution, how to make even SC loot much more spicy. Just stop to trade. It works really well, I assure you.

Eh, kinda, I ended up using leafsprig until well past level 70 last time and then switched it for only slightly better

to fuel my 3-link tendril combo.

You know, every time you see a wand, scepter or dagger drop you perk up 'this might be the ONE'. It's mostly hoping against hope, though :)

Yeah, not exactly the kind of tension we're talking about but it's part of a problem. Loot is prevalently just a big, boring pile of junk, like those goblin piles when cleaning out castle Harmondale. You get a low-tier random item from them but catch disease every time you click one.

...
I've been thinking that hades thingy might work pretty well in a race, very short timer on loot, keep close and grab it before it melts. The only problem is melee in early game is actually good so it takes a bit away from the challenge.

"

raics wrote:

Yeah, not exactly the kind of tension we're talking about but it's part of a problem. Loot is prevalently just a big, boring pile of junk, like those goblin piles when cleaning out castle Harmondale. You get a low-tier random item from them but catch disease every time you click one.

Yes, but introducing "stealing" of those junk if you are not fast enough will not improve situation only increase player's frustration even more.

Imagine, that after months of farming you at last see orange Prophecy Wand on ground... and it disappeared because you were busy to fight some monster pack. Constant rage quite :)

Aye, that's exactly it, a regular drop is largely uninteresting, it has a very low chance to be actually good and even lower chance to be an upgrade. So only some uniques and high currency have a high obvious value and are worth scrambling for. I'd say loot tension concept would be a much better fit for a game that drops mid-value items very often, not this.

If most players in a given league enjoyed loot tension (which the proposed changes seek to introduce more of), wouldn't we see SA used more? Given it's not, how would this do anything but alienate the majority of players?

I, like others, don't really get why anyone would want loot tension in the first place. Perhaps for a cutthroat league, where everyone expects and wants to fight other players for everything.

To all those saying they don't want any for of loot tension:

Do you play HC regularly?
If you have played HC, have you enjoyed the experience?

Me, I have not played HC regularly, but I have played it some, and I've actually had quite a bit of fun doing so. It is, however, really intense, so it's not something I'd do all the time.

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

It is, however, really intense, so it's not something I'd do all the time.

This is something you need to reflect on when suggesting that standard needs more "spice". I don't play HC because it's a nerve-wracking, stressful experience. If you injected that stress into my relaxing standard league, I would probably quit. At the very least, I would play a lot less, and certainly enjoy my playtime a lot less.

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

Do you play HC regularly?
If you have played HC, have you enjoyed the experience?

Not saying there's no place at all for loot tension here, but sure:
I'm not playing regularly. I've played some in beta and recently in combined mod one week races after temp leagues are over although I played the last one soft.

Tell you the truth, I'm not really enjoying it much. The thing is, it has exactly the opposite effect on me, increased risk makes me play safer, pick tougher builds and avoid challenges I would otherwise attempt, which I probably hate the most about it. Normal builds I'm making are usually fairly stretched and gimped in some way or the other because my roleplaying tendencies still refuse to lay down and die. So, playing something like that can be pretty nervewracking, what you're trying to do is see how far can you push the game without dieing.

That's tension, your nerves are tense, while playing HC is like suddenly snapping wide awake from a light snooze, yawn-yawn-OH SHIT! It's different from, say, watching a horror movie, that's tense-tense-OH SHIT!

Anyway, I don't really see loot tension having much to do with your SC-HC tendencies, I think it tickles a different spot.

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

To all those saying they don't want any for of loot tension:

Do you play HC regularly?
If you have played HC, have you enjoyed the experience?

I don't play hardcore leagues, no. I don't play the permanent hardcore league because the only thing surviving in it offers is prestige, which I don't care about in a game this focused on randomness and grinding. And I don't play temporary hardcore leagues because the idea of making one mistake and losing out on an entire pervasive game feature permanently for that character doesn't appeal to me in the least. Especially when it can't even be guaranteed that my death will be my fault.

I feel similarly to Antnee. It's long been the case that part of the reason I play ARPGs is to "relax", for lack of a better word. They demand just enough attention for them to be good distractions, and I get to do a lot of thinking and planning all the while. I value edge-of-the-seat intensity in games but if I'm going to be playing games specifically for their high skill requirements I will play those that aren't built on randomness. Similarly I like permadeath, but not when I've spent weeks building up the character. I would sooner play Super Hexagon for intensity or FTL for permadeath.

"

raics wrote:

The thing is, it has exactly the opposite effect on me, increased risk makes me play safer, pick tougher builds and avoid challenges I would otherwise attempt, which I probably hate the most about it

Also this, yeah. "Failure" in these (non-hardcore) games is "soft" - you're not really losing, just winning more slowly than other people. And I play more slowly than many anyway, so that's fine. This prevents the game from becoming a "use the optimal builds or fail" situation, instead letting me use the builds that I feel "should" work, and just clear a bit slower.

What are you trying to ascertain by the question, anyway?

Well, I was going to write something like this, but Moosifer did it already (in the death penalty thread):

"

Moosifer wrote:

The game is made by HC players and they wanted an experience for other HC players. Standard isn't suddenly casual zone, it's meant to be as punishing without the permanent results.

Again I say, it seems this just isn't a game for your style of play... there's many games that cater to your style of play but few that are similar to POE. I'd prefer if you'd played those rather than ruining something that's almost all but extinct.

I simply cannot fathom how some players defend keeping Standard vanilla because it's supposed to be - and I can scarcely believe I'm quoting here -

"

Antnee wrote:

relaxing

I wasn't born yesterday; I know why Standard is considered relaxing. It is because the focus is less on an XP progression, and more on a loot progression. Dying doesn't take away anything you truly care about; you shrug off even a large XP penalty, because level isn't how you measure your e-peen. (Those who do care about level either get salty on the forums or get smart and play HC.) I'm just trying to have the slightest, tiniest impact on something which you actually do care about, so you can't just cruise through on autopilot.

I can't cruise through on autopilot, nor is that my intention. That's what the game is for, to make sure that you can't do that (and hopefully that you don't want to). If I wanted to watch a movie about a character gradually acquiring better weapons and killing thousands of monsters with them, I would, but I don't.