Tornado Shot is a joke right?
" I thought it was obvious, in the mechanic itself. I thought it was telling enough that they needed to introduce a new monster mod specifically because voidbearers were ripping melees to shreds in multiprojectile maps. It was either that or have every real melee run around with arctic armor. " See? That's exactly why it won't go anywhere, we grew to like it too much, and crit and immortal call, and trigger gems. But of course it is evil, that's why it tastes so good, dark side has cookies. Wish the armchair developers would go back to developing armchairs. ◄[www.moddb.com/mods/balancedux]► ◄[www.moddb.com/mods/one-vision1]► Last edited by raics#7540 on Jan 4, 2015, 3:04:24 PM
|
|
" if there is a problem with a monster why removing a working mechanic that is absolutley fine in any other case for players instead of fixing the monster? " yea, its like the game you want is the game i would not like to play basically poe -1,5 years developement lets agree to disagree. |
|
|
Because the monster is not the problem, if you were following what I was saying some posts ago, it happened again in Invasion before they reduced damage of bosses that can shotgun to levels that are laughable once you're out of shotgunning range. People died there, soldier, it was horrible...
Ehem, of course we won't agree, if RF incinerator was slow to you I can tell what you're normally used to. It's fine to enjoy being powerful and PoE delivers that particular feeling in spades, but there's a time you realize you've ridden one particular horse into the ground up to the saddle and it became no more than a stumbling block to the herd. So, we won't agree, but it's a nice way to pass the sunday evening, wouldn't you say? :) Wish the armchair developers would go back to developing armchairs. ◄[www.moddb.com/mods/balancedux]► ◄[www.moddb.com/mods/one-vision1]► Last edited by raics#7540 on Jan 4, 2015, 3:23:09 PM
|
|
" Well, it is not that OP in my situation. I removed LGoH which was the last thing gimping Tornado shot (I got a lot of nodes with physical damage, accuracy, and etc), and Ice Shot was still clearing packs better. Maybe if I had a 400+ pdps, 8+ base crit bow, then TS will do everything I need, but atm TS is not good in one scenario, everything else, TS is doing great. Edit: Besides, bow builds gives you the luxury of having two bow skills be fully invested. " I am actually using LG in a bow build that uses Split Arrow/Explosive Arrow, but one problem, reflect is not fun, so my alternate is take down mobs via multiple bear traps and other utility skills I invested into. " I never said crit did not apply to all skills, I just said crit makes some of those skills that are borderline OP even more OP. " I never been the type of the person to go all offense....as most would say glasscannon (but glasscannon in this game is still tanky with stuff like Acuity and etc), I mostly strive balance to relatively kill things quickly (not the 2-4 min clear maps, I cannot keep up with that myself), but be tanky enough to handle a good amount of content. I do not like the idea of encouraging something that might be temporarily. Most of this stuff are bandwagon-ed. It is what it is.............I am still keeping my stance. " I may possibly be using Tornado Shot the wrong way, but gaining back 700-1000 hp per hit is something very attractive as a bow evasion build. I can actually tank those Evangelists's (I got 46% spell dodge on top of that) physical AoE which is the bane for evasion builds, and for range you can kite it, but in my case, I do not have to. Even if I take out LGoH, life leech (from blood drinker) is not going to do much since the DPS is not high enough unless I can crit often, and my crit multiplier was +400%, then it is mostly worth it. But as it is, LGoH is clearly superior by a long shot in this build. As for your note, I appreciate it that you are not trying mock my build or anything. Discussion without negative arguments is a very fun discussion. As for discussing skill performance/relative performance, it should be done taking a lot of things into consideration, otherwise you a skewered result in balancing. One good example, Puncture, which got nuked in patch 1.3, was being abused heavily abused in the mechanics by Chin Sol trapper (a bit of crit) build and to some extent GG crit Harbinger bow builds, and the nerf to puncture decimated my DW crit dagger build, and specced enough DoT nodes to make worth using. Puncture is more like a mosquito bite in my build now...luckily though, it was not my main skill. I been using Frenzy with it, because it is part of the identity of the build. Still, as it is at the moment, I cannot see Puncture as a skill now with the existent of "melee chance to bleed" nodes, it makes puncture almost obsolete. Sure it can guaranteed you to make something bleed......but that is it. It mostly acts like debuff now because of bloodletting notable. " That is the ugly side of crit, and even with some crit builds I have, I barely use Surgeon flasks, and I for one, want that mod gone too. I may be gimping myself slightly with the flasks, but Surgeon makes it insane, so I try to have nothing to do with it as much as I can. Sometimes you can take the game out of the garage but you can't take the garage out of the game. - raics, 06.08.2016 Last edited by JohnNamikaze#6516 on Jan 4, 2015, 4:22:49 PM
|
|
" LMP/GMP are fine for skills, that cant shotgun - like Power Siphon, Barrage, Spectral Throw, etc, etc. However, for skills, that CAN shotgun (TS included), LMP/GMP are used just as a mandatory 2.1 (2.5) damage multiplier. Who wont use a support, providing the biggest damage bonus? Noobs only, perhaps... If i were to speak about PoE in total - then i see lots of wong choices the GGG made, and they are poisoning the game more and more. Some of the get fixed, other dont, third appear from nothing.... That isnt the way you do the balance. When one skill is by far the best in any encounters, it's OP. Period. Yes, it's TS. When one item base is by far the best among others, it OP. Yes, it's Harbinger Bow. When one support is by far the best for DPS, it's OP. Yes, GMP/LMP for shotgunning, and also Spell Echo. When one item is by far the best for any crit build, it's OP. Yes, Atziri's Acuity. Well, at least, the fixed the crazy Crit Damage gem and some crit nodes, and block. But not in the way i wanted. Those OP mechanics still retain non-linear scaling curve, making them too good with enough investment, and useless without. IGN: MortalKombat
Molten Strike build guide: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1346504 There is no knowledge That is not power |
|
|
you seem to missed that my whole conversation with raics was related to spells only we wasnt talking about tornado shot
|
|
" Until you meet cold-resistant pack.... Also, it costs more mana (much more - with chain), leeches less and is useless against few spread-up enemies or boss. Oh - i forgot - with HoA included into equation, the difference is even greater, as TS deals higher per-hit damage, than any "chained" skill. IGN: MortalKombat
Molten Strike build guide: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1346504 There is no knowledge That is not power |
|
" With Pierce, Ice Shot is wrecking even packs with cold res (still has a ton of physical damage involved). Ice Shot is only costing me like 25 mana per shot, so I have no issue spamming it. The auras I am using are Grace/Hatred/Clarity. Though, I think I do not really need Grace anymore since I almost got 11k evasion rating without it, which puts me at 48% chance to evade. I will probably sneak in HoA and HoT to add more damage for both skills. But yea, I use both skills, and I already explained in that post which you did not cover that I do not have enough DPS to make leech useful, so I use LGOH instead. I only removed LGOH (placed WED) to try out if Tornado Shot was better at clearing packs than Ice Shot, and it still is not. Getting back to LGOH, I heal almost instantly with Tornado Shot, so leech is more of a bonus, but not something to rely on. As for bosses and spread up enemies (aka single-targeting), I use Tornado Shot. Ice Shot - clear packs easily, off screen kills precisely Tornado Shot - clear single target easily, heals, tanks boss, and occasional off-screen kills (that is a coincidence) I never have issues alternating skills in different situations, and I have a lot of fun that way. Both skills are scratching each other's back, so all ends well. Sometimes you can take the game out of the garage but you can't take the garage out of the game. - raics, 06.08.2016 Last edited by JohnNamikaze#6516 on Jan 5, 2015, 4:06:48 AM
|
|
|
@OP :
every attack skill is OP compared to EK. IGN TylordRampage
|
|
|
So here's a solution to fixing tornado shot: remove shotgunning. Entirely.
Don't get me wrong, that shit is pretty crazy and outclasses every other bow skill out there - and Harbingers bow is solely responcible for outmoding every other class and skillset in the game outside of a handful of spell builds, but what of it? "If you’re incompetent, you can’t know you’re incompetent. […] the skills you need to produce a right answer are exactly the skills you need to recognize what a right answer is." ~David Dunning
|
|
