The main source of frustation, especially for new players

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Quixote77 wrote:

To be fair, the OP isn't moaning. It's really him restating his original point of view, that a 5/6L shouldn't be RNG-gated

It isnt anymore. RNG applies only if you decide to gamble. If you get burned, well, it was your choice to gamble in the first place. With Vorici in place, there's no longer any RNG.

Oh right, op doesn't like Vorici, op wants 6L in 20 fusings. Wants an end game item, wants it now, but doesnt wanna do anything for it. If one doesn't want to grind at all, maybe he shouldn't play a grind ARPG.

Zero sympathy.

That is because as I've said before and I'll say it till the end of times. 6L are NOT end game items. They are merely step stones in build progression. To deny that is to deny progression. You can say whatever you want about how it's not needed. I will say that for some builds that is not true, even the costs of 5L are high. Yes, maybe you can find some pieces of armor that are 5L for something like 2c or rarely 1c which are split defenses and I've said my piece about them already.

Quixote77 - no it's not a variant of that build, it in fact starts from the scion tree and it's not a mage build at all. It's a block build, it gets at least 41% block from the nodes. it also gets some extra evasion and dodge. A little bit of life as well. Minimal elemental damage as an extra. Yes it's not a high DPS, it's a high survival character which is supposed to make enemies overcome first a dodge at 40% then at least 75% chances of evasion and last 75% block. If it's magic then at least 45% dodge and then 75% block. Add 75% resistences and you have a high survivabillity character. Damage output is low, cybil's paw solves part of what I don't get in the tree. Blood magic solves me not having anything in mana regeneration nor anything that increaes the pool. 2 auras improve damage. Yes it's not a high clear speed build and yes, it's not a god build, it is one I'd like to do someday but I am fully aware that it's highly unlikely that I'll ever be able as I see myself needing a 2K+ evasion chest piece with 4 blue and 2 red. So yeah, it will probably never happen. Even then I'm not really complaining about the unacomplishable nature of this build. I'm complaining of the general dificulty to obtain 5L and 6L, especially for newbies.

I also don't know why anyone calls a 5L or 6L of a specific defense type a god item. That is not a god item, it's a perfectly normal item. a god item would need to have at least tri res + life + extra defense. I'm only talking about a white here of the right type for your character.

Also silverdash. Stop saying that 350 base armor is 1 to 3% damage resistence. This is false. with 0 armor I have 0 damage mitigation. If I remove my armor and leave the otehr pieces I lose something like 26% of damage resistence. I am not talking about 1 to 3%, if it was just that much I wouldn't care too. Maybe against a hard hitting boss that is it but against a hard hitting boss I have a granite with +97% extra armor. But only and only against a boss! I don't want to be hitting the flask every 4 seconds because there is another mob there and another over there and one more over there. That is a pain in the ass especially when my damage mitigation more than handles it if I just have the right piece of armor. Even for most bosses the armor is enough so long as I have it. What it is not enough is only for things that hit as hard as brutus or kale. Then I do need a granite... If I used a tabula rasa as you say I'd need to hit the flask for everything because I'd have no defenses worth notice.

Last and not least. Stop comparing tank builds to DPS builds. A DPS build meant to work only on 5L or 6L can clear about as fast as a DPS build meant to work only on a 4L. They just need different amount of support gems to be working but they are just as fast once they are at the required level.

BTW, I don't go for only DPS or only defensive on the passive. I take a few life nodes early on and then I go as the spec needs, if it needs more DPS I take a few DPS nodes, if it needs more resistence and I have resistence nodes nearby I take those (can always respec out of them later if needed) and if I need more life I get more life. I tend to ignore defense increasing nodes early on, I take them later on when they are more effective and even then I don't take many, just some to increase my survivabillity.

Derriesen - Currently I'm only developing 2 characters. One with another friend who hasn't quit yet which is my warrior and it really only died once when trying to kill a unique boss but couldn't kill his guards (vorici quest), the guards managed to keep me stunned for long enough to die and even then it took them some time. Other than that the character is pretty beefed up and has something like over 5K DPS on cruel just reached act 2. Unfortunatly that character doesn't levels up as quickly as I'd like because you know, I'll only play it when my friend is online. The other is going for mathil's tornado shot and I don't play it much either because I don't enjoy the character very much to be honest. Nothing wrong with the build or anything, just an uninspiring character to play for me. In either case I am having no problems with them. the problems I refered to were past characters from months or even years ago.

And how on earth 350 armor rating chest piece will help you get 75% evasion? To get 70% evesion against lev 59 monster (same level as your highest lev character) you need 13 000 evasion rating not armor. Good luck getting that at level 59. to have 75% chance to evade at level 79 you need 33 000 evasion - impossible. You trying to build something that can't be done and blaming it for lack of 5L or 6L.

Do you want evasion or armor? can't have both at 50% at high levels without using flasks.



By the way. at level 89 i got 25% chance to evade and 3% damage reduction from armor. after using together my damage reduction from armor goes to 49%. You don't want to use flasks - that's your problem. They're there for a reason.

Anyway this discussion has no sense anymore, block in 1.3 is nerfed so badly that no 6L will help OP no matter how godly chest he has.

I'm tired of this anyway. You still not posted your items gems and tree so we could help you, I give up on this thread now.

Good luck with your endavours.

Why do you keep confusing my characters? Why do you have to confuse the talks I do of my armor on my melee character with what I say about my evasion+block+dodge build? Cause really, I separate each thing nicely, if you are not paying attention to what I write and just skim over things that is your problem. I don't see most people confusing what I say.

As for your armor, I don't care, on appropriate level armour I have 51% damage reduction from armor alone at level 43. Never did pop the flask just to see how high it got but at my level it probably gets me the 95% all things considered.

I dunno how nerfed is block going to be in 1.3 but I belive it's going to be nerfed into uselessness, it is a common practice for most developers to nerf something that is too good into being utherly useless... So what if that build I had in mind is not going to be worth anything once 1.3 arives? I was merely using it as an example of a build that requires a 6L to work. I could have used any CoC build as an example as well.

Please understand that I am not asking for helps with builds. I've followed other people's builds in the last characters I've made and the very last I've made, my melee character is a build I've made myself. which will be rendered useless too once the changes to the tree occur but I'm sure I can make something equally good once the changes happen anyway. I am finally at the point where I can make my own builds. They will not be optmised but they will be more than able to fend for themselves. My current level 43 warrior proves that much, self made build and able to take on anything. Mobs die in one hit, blues die in 2 or 3, depending on whether it has extra health mod or not. Bosses usually don't last more than a second, about 2 second for the toughest non end act ones. Even end act bosses are a pushover. This on a 5L, I could lose faster attacks and I'd still kill them far too quickly.

So I am not really having problem with builds. I am merely bring the fact that getting 5L and 6L is far harder than it should be. These should under no circusntace be considered rare items. They are step stones in build progression and they should be treated as such. Sockets and links should be be considered in any measure of rarity. Their availabillity should be easily obtainable. What people should be looking for in items is not how many links they have but rather how will the stats that the item has improve their character.

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my evasion+block+dodge build?

This build seems to have too many problems you are trying to tackle at once... Expecially the blood magic gem is so redundant and counterproductive, leave it out and be fine on a 4/5 link... invest inot three mana nodes run clarity and if that doesnt help take EB and be set. Really why bother with something at lvl 35 that only complicates your progression?

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As for your armor, I don't care, on appropriate level armour I have 51% damage reduction from armor alone at level 43. Never did pop the flask just to see how high it got but at my level it probably gets me the 95% all things considered

I think you neither understand the mechanics behind armor nor the display in you cahracter sheet.

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My current level 43 warrior proves that much

No build at lvl 43 proves anything. except for that level span maybe.

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Mobs die in one hit, blues die in 2 or 3, depending on whether it has extra health mod or not. Bosses usually don't last more than a second, about 2 second for the toughest non end act ones. Even end act bosses are a pushover. This on a 5L

And this doesnt show you that 5 links and 6 links should be rarer than lower linked stuff? Its a challange to get a good linked piece and to accomplish something with it. Why should it be even easier?

Yes the build was tackling a lot of things at once but again it's not the point is it? the point is that it works only on a 6L. At lower levels it might work on a 5L by not adding faster casting but higher level will require.

I understand the armor mechanics, the more damage the attack has the less the armor will be able to absorve. But the percentage indicated there is an estimate of how much it will mitigate for regular mobs.

To you it might not prove anything. To me this build has been ripping through content like no other build I've ever seen and I've only given it minimum extra damage from the tree, I've been getting leech and life from the tree more than anything else really. Right now I'm going to get the rest of the life leech to make it 5% and 2% mana leech so I don't need the item where i have it currently... I know most people prefer to leech from items but I was alread 3 points away even if I didn't get it, might as well get it and save myself the ring for a le hoop of all which greatly increases my DPS.

And no, this doesn't shows me that 5L or 6L should be rare. I made this build because I needed a 4L build so I was sure to always be able to go on with appropriate level armor. Just because this build works on 4L alone it doesn't means others do nor that my build is fun for other people. After all when you play you want to have fun, I assume the same is valid for everyone. To some people the builds they want to try only work on 5L or 6L. Why should they be denied that fun? Why should they need to suffer several hundreds of hours until they get the currency to buy a 6L for the character they want to build?

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Elhazzared wrote:

I understand the armor mechanics, the more damage the attack has the less the armor will be able to absorve. But the percentage indicated there is an estimate of how much it will mitigate for regular mobs.

It's the estimate for a hit from a crippled monkey.

Hey Elhazzared,

I just took a look at your shop thread, it seems you lack a lot of knowledge about trading/pricing too. Why not listen to some of the wll meant feedback and help provided by people in this thread?
You might actually learn something! And in the end, when you finally get your 6 link item with life tri res and 5 off colors you can actually be proud of it!

I feel that if you let people help you, you could change your view on the discussed matter completely and enjoy the game as it was intended to be enjoyed by its makers. We could put this pointless argument at peace then.

regards

PS: I wont normally go down the route of teling someone to learn to play the game but there are cases where people discuss matters they cannot realy contribute to because they cant grasp the whole perspective of the game. I recently made a thread in the suggestions forum about keeping up the map pool and a new orb that could help with it. I got replies from people who are much higher skillled and experienced players than me and I had to admit that I had not seen the thing as a whole and from the perspective of higher level players. Sometimes you just have to admit defeat and learn from it. Its nothing to be ashamed of.
Please dont feel offende but it seems you barely even touched this game yet.

I don't see how letting people help me (and I do take advices into serious consideration whether or not it looks like it) is ever going to change my perpesctive about 5L and 6L. They are things that should be easily accessible to even the bigest noob and worse player once he reaches the minimum level to have them. This is a point I will never concede. These things are important to make entire builds work. This is the major point that drives new players away and no, they wouldn't have quit later on because they don't get that special drop they want. One thing is to want something that is at very least expected to even progress your build, another is to expect an item that will make you a god in the game. The game won't be easier either, as it was proven, 4L can pretty much make anything easy if it's the right comination of gems with the right passives from the tree. Since this is true, having 5L and 6L available easily will not change the difficulty of the game at all because it was already provent that it can be made easy. It will merely allow for earlier diversity in builds.

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Elhazzared wrote:

I don't see how letting people help me (and I do take advices into serious consideration whether or not it looks like it) is ever going to change my perpesctive about 5L and 6L. They are things that should be easily accessible to even the bigest noob and worse player once he reaches the minimum level to have them. This is a point I will never concede. These things are important to make entire builds work. This is the major point that drives new players away and no, they wouldn't have quit later on because they don't get that special drop they want. One thing is to want something that is at very least expected to even progress your build, another is to expect an item that will make you a god in the game. The game won't be easier either, as it was proven, 4L can pretty much make anything easy if it's the right comination of gems with the right passives from the tree. Since this is true, having 5L and 6L available easily will not change the difficulty of the game at all because it was already provent that it can be made easy. It will merely allow for earlier diversity in builds.

While I agree with your stance on the subject, GGG doesnt want us to be able to have fun trying new things and experimenting with all the things the game has to offer, instead, they want you to grind your life away in the game, playing with the scraps left behind by the rich players, never experiencing a feeling of completion, because they fear that fun leads to player loss.