The main source of frustation, especially for new players

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Elhazzared wrote:

That isn't the only problem BINARYGOD. Sure Vorici could be changed to have decent prices and be able to even put up to any combination of 6 colours that you want in the said piece. That would only work if he could give you 6 sockets, 6 links, and 6 colours as you want at both reasonable prices AND at level 3 of favor... Getting to level 2 is easly done. Going upwards of that takes a really long time and by the time it's level 7 at least, you're probably already level 90+ in several characters which would defeat the point.

I don't think you need several characters to do that, nor one that is as high as 90.

Strictly going for whatever you find during the campaign you certainly see them level up incredibly slowly. In my case he is level 3, probably 2 or 3 missions away from level 4 and I've done missions for him in 3 characters, one of them being level 59 and on mercyless already.

You really need the 5 links as soon as you are in cruel and it would be good to have 6 link before mercyless or at least as soon as you hit mercyless.

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Elhazzared wrote:

You really need the 5 links as soon as you are in cruel and it would be good to have 6 link before mercyless or at least as soon as you hit mercyless.

That is pretty much the earliest possible a twink character can even get those link setups (except for Tabula Rasa). 5L has minimum level of 35 and 6L has minimum level of 50. If you think you need that, your expectations need adjustment.

You can look at all the characters I have on my account, almost all of them run 4L setups and can do maps (melee needs 5L for maps, though). I didn't google builds or anything, didn't trade for gear, just made it up as I went with what I found myself. It doesn't require as much as you think.

I do know the minimum levels. It doesn't means that the usual setups that you can do on 4L are any fun to play at all! sure some people like it. that is fine. almost every new build you'll come up with or try to copy from the forum will require you at very least a 5L as soon as possible because otherwise you'll have no sustain or no DPS to make it work. Many only work properly on the 6L.

The Build my friend was trying was a cleave elemental damage build. It doesn't levels the cleave because it doesn't needs the extra physical damage so it had a very low mana requirement but on the other hand 4L was not enough for him under any circunstance once he was midway through cruel. Cleave + faster attack + multistrike + WEP. That barely gave him the DPS he needed to be effective. Only that without life leech he was getting killed far too easily. On the same note if he traded any of those for life leech his DPs would fall drasticly. He would stand a bit more of a chance because of the life leech, but due to the huge DPS drop the quantity of life leeched wasn't as big as it was supposed too and it was insuficient too.

This is only an example. The vast majority of builds do need a 5L. You can do with 4L if you stick to a very limited amount skills. But then again, if you want to play a very limited that is up to you. A game with so much supposed variety should allow players to thrive in it, not force them into a generic build for hundreds of hours until they have so much currency stored that they can start thinking of something they would actually like to play for a change.

You've changed your wording from 5L being "essential" or "needed" to just being desirable for more fun. That wording tweak is important.

It's good the game has something you want, something to strive for. What's more important: the journey or the destination? If you get what you want immediately with little effort there's no journey.

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Elhazzared wrote:

Hello GGG. I wanted to address the major problem that any player encounters in this game.

Linked sockets!

I loled a lot. ^^ Come on, you can clear merciless with a 4L or 5L np. And you can buy a decent 5L for only a few chaos orbs so I really don't see a problem here!

I think 5L and 6L should be stuff you a really happy about finding. So they should be rare.

But more links would open a lot of interesting build possibilities earlier in the game. A solution could be to change Vorici's prices: Let them depend on the req level of the item. So getting 6L on a simple robe should be a lot cheaper than getting 6L on a sacrificial garb. Then allow 5L at an earlier master level (it does take ages to level the buggers up, even if you chain your dailies). 6L can remain exclusive.

That way, a 6L shav can be just as rare/expensive as now, but 5L low lvl chests could be more accessible.

Many interesting points in thread.. I think the problem with poe is that chosen systems are not working to intention, for example the socket system for abilties is more restrictive than it enables choice.

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PolarisOrbit wrote:

You've changed your wording from 5L being "essential" or "needed" to just being desirable for more fun. That wording tweak is important.

It's good the game has something you want, something to strive for. What's more important: the journey or the destination? If you get what you want immediately with little effort there's no journey.

A 5L early on, as early as you hit cruel is essencial/needed for 95% of the builds.

Let's consider that most people don't even know what is a build that requires only 4L to work and let's also assume that the vast majority of the people aren't great players, they are average or maybe even bellow average and unless they have the bare minimum which is a 5L in cruel and a 6L in mercyless, they just can't move forward.

The point again is. If you can only play a few builds, an incredibly limited amount of builds which basicly are based on 4 or 5 abillities out of the whole pool of abillities. How is that good for the game?

Again I just pointed out the case with my friend which we used to play together until yesterday. He was so frustated that by mercyless he couldn't get a 5L armor to drop that he gave up on the game. He was tired of dying in situations where if he had at least one more linked socket to be able to leech life he'd probably survive and at very least he'd stand a much better chance against anything... He isn't the greatest of players but he isn't dreadful either.

The journey is really important. It's so incredibly important that if you are not feeling any progress in the journey then it becomes nothing more than frustation. To quote my friend. "If I have to deal with all of this frustation, I'd rather just go back to play world of tanks."

To give you an impression of what would be a great pace for the game.

You get your first 4L by act 2 before you fight end boss.

You get your first 5L by the very begining of cruel, either before or after hillock.

You get your first 6L by the very begiging of mercyless.

From that point on what are you looking for?

Extra rare gems for other characters.

Better rares for your character.

Uniques to either improve your character or start a new one based on an idea that unique gave you.

It's already hard that you don't get the gems you need by the level they are needed. For example, a multistrike should be offered right at level 31, not by the end of mercyless. But you can get a couple rare gems from the market pretty easily, you just have to waste some time trying to buy in several channels until someone sells it to you at a reasonable price. The 5L and 6L however are not like that.

Someone said that getting a 5L or 6L on the market is not expensive, just a few chaos. In my experience I don't see them going for less than an exault, usually more than one and i'm not talking of uniques, merely rares (since you don't seen anyone selling anything less than rare)... Add to buying the 5L a not too high level requirement like 38 and add the colours that you and suddenly, not expensive is incredibly expensive... Let me add that I have at best something like 21 chaos orbs, it's not like i can spend chaos orbs like candy, this not to mentin that I don't have any exaults.

No, the game isn't doing it's job properly in trying to keep the new players playing. This is a fact. People get frustated, just like I am. just like my friend who just quit is.

You don't play any game like this at all and see your progress blocked so badly. Diablo gives you skills, you have the level, you have them. Have fun mixing it however you like. Sacred is closest to this as it gives you abillities that you learn and level up as drops. But they drop frequently enough and you can convert the ones you don't want or need into the ones you want and need. mofying the skills happens with level ups. Really, any hack and slash game in the market does it like so. You have to find good equipment to better your combat capacities. But your build will work reguardless because they don't stop your progress and that is the right thing to do.

What players need is getting their 5L and 6L at the appropriate time which is just about as when they have enough level to get them and they need a form of reliable customisation to get the right coloured sockets. And all of this must come at a reasonable price so that new players can stay in the game and feeling that they are progressing instead of feeling like they hit a dead end and that's how much the game is really worth.

Your last post sounds very much like "I want it all and I want it now!".

Yes, that will attract a lot of new players, but it also means the game loses that great feeling of achievement when something truly cool drops. 6L is godly and should be very hard work to get. 5L should be lots of work. No "I got to this area, so gimme great stuff", please, it's really short-sighted. The reason you find people still playing this game after years is because of the feeling of achievement.