The main source of frustation, especially for new players
"My version: Making the socketing, linking and colouring better by making it so that you have the option to not regress. You can optionally not get worse. Default Option: Unconditionally randomize and override current socket state. Low-Risk Option: Randomize but only override current socket state in the case of results being better than or neutral to current socket state. (Jeweller's/Fusings only) An option for maintaining socket crafting progress, that is all I am asking for. I don't feel entitled to winning the lottery, just being able to play it. I don't like having to hoard Orbs for an entire year in order to feel safe playing the lottery. I don't like knowing that I will have to break my gear before I can improve on it. I don't like playing the lottery 800 times in a row over the course of 5 minutes. I would much rather play 1 time a day for 800 days. I would like to see a Fusing drop as a fresh opportunity to improve my gear, but instead I see it as just another coin for the piggy bank that I cannot touch until I have enough of a safety net to recover from bad RNG. It would be fantastic if Jeweller's were not so counter productive to Fusings. Work to get a 4S 4L, then spend a Jeweller's to backtrack to 1S... Are you kidding me?! The two Orbs don't even play nice together. It is awful design. In fact, it is probably intentionally abusive design. Chris's sadism? TY to those who called me out on my BS on these forums. There is no benefit to being so selfish as to fail to acknowledge others' differing beliefs of what "should be" or believe your own opinions so supreme as to be factual and thus dismiss others' opinions as being somehow a lie or delusional.
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It's not a standalone change because making a 6L all but guaranteed by level 60 means the loot tables/system, and the manner in which the game experience views progression into the 80s and beyond, would have to be revamped as well. You're basically talking about min-maxing at level 60 where the game as we know it is about surviving at that level.
Would your proposed changes be more welcoming to new players? Definitely. Would it necessarily be a better game as a result? Don't know as we have to see that game in effect. It'll be a different POE to the one we know, love (and loathe) now. I don't think having easily obtainable 6L's will necessarily promote more skill diversity either; players will still gravitate to the same tried-and-tested combinations eventually. If you want more skill diversity, we just need better gem variation and interaction IMO. Last edited by Quixote77#2013 on Dec 6, 2014, 4:29:00 PM
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The problem lie in Crafting being Rng based instead of skill based.
It would have been much better if you could, by doing quests or killing certain bosses acquire crafting skills bonuses. Maybe a level 60-70 toon after killing all the game bosses + few map bosses or doing certain npc quest could gain like 30% chances to craft a 5l when trying to craft. TO craft a 6l you would then need only rng like it is now. That way you could have 5l and actually make this game feel like a real "rpg" by using skills and quests. Masters quest are great but it just give better life options for the rich, it does not give you a better rpg-like feeling. A full master revamp could be the idea. After completing masters quest you gain percent of skills in crafting armor/weapons, whatever. SO even if you don't have level 8 masters you still have a better chance to craft than before hence you get the feeling that your character is really improving. On the top of that, then you could have those masters mods on weapons that pop at each masters levels. So let s say the armor master would give you a 4% chance bonus to craft a 5l on armor at each level, like zana give you %quantity at each level Forum pvp https://www.instagram.com/critterspencils/ Last edited by lolozori#1147 on Dec 6, 2014, 4:43:10 PM
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" +1 to that on standard but it makes sense the way that league is implemented. And I don't get a lot of offers for 10ex+ items indeed. And the ones that I do get are ~70% ripoff offers trying to flip my items. But I last week I did sell 2x 6L bow (one flipped and one sold for more after I was done using it), and I also sold a 14ex self-found rare crit amulet yesterday with only tier1 rolls. With enough divines you could make a mirror item out of it but I'm not risking that. I should have sold it for 20+... Hell I even used to buy cheap items in beyond that nobody wanted (like that uniq map with lots of monster damage, some even for free!) and then ripped a lvl1 char and sold it on standard league for profit. Whatever works to make money I guess. And I'm not trading between ladder and non ladder either. I just rip myself and make use of game mechanics. My (now semi-)glass-cannon lvl 91 character used to run lvl 76+ haku's and almost never died. I did see melee marauders die there though and many others. I have 2.9k hp and maxed res and run Grace+dodge tree. I facetank a lot of weak bosses through vaal-pact. If it can't onehit me, it can't kill me. I rarely die anymore (how else can I get lvl 91?). This is the character with 400+ deaths but I respecced her with the free respec into something good now that I get the hang of things. You learn by dying a lot and by playing hardcore imo. Every time you die you must ask yourself this question: "Why did I die?". It's often not because of the gear in my experience (unless you have 0 dps). You don't need to be tanky at all. But you do need experience and newbs don't have that yet okay I get it. But if they play a glass-cannon relatively soon then they will learn much faster. At least it worked for me. Playing a tanky lifeleech with vaalpact and 5k+ hp and max block will never teach you the game properly. But those builds get nerfed in 1.3 :P. The super cheap super tanky dual wield max block melee will be gone... I agree that the 6L's need a minor buff in droprate/crafting. But on the other hand, I do think that it was interesting playing certain builds with only a 5L on hardcore. This tiny bit of extra thrill to it... "I totally disagree. A lvl 35 5L is good enough up to lvl 90 (or even higher) for most builds. What matters is the extra damage from the 5L and you can easily make it up with other gear. The tiny amount of extra armor... I don't even look at those stats when leveling to be honest. Only when I buy my final item do I look at such stats. Personally I prefer using a Tabula post lvl 30 for leveling. Then add a manaleech gem (or elreon jewelry) to sustain the other 4 support gems. " And I do believe (know) that you can run merciless nearly naked with only a Tabula and a good dps item if you are not melee. I have done it before. And if you are a newbie, so what? You die but you still progress! The only penalty is the mental one when they die. The XP loss = almost 0. And a granite flask is EXTREMELY op at earlier levels and you can literally tank almost any boss/rare at those levels with just granite flask and some hp items/nodes. In Merciless add a Grace aura to it for armor/evasion and voila you are fine once again. Iron reflexes + grace + granite + hp nodes = tanky enough imo. If you need more you just... need to die more and learn the game imo. But yes you do need a certain level of experienec for that after normal. But in normal you can run naked with only resistance jewelry, a granite and a weapon and still be INSANELY tanky. You just need the level to use a granite. You can even use alts on the granite to give another +80-100% armor/eva. I also often take 1-2 resistance nodes when leveling that I respec out later again. And if a newbie makes his own build and has no decent tree... Then he needs a 10L item to dish out damage... A 6L won't save those people I'm sorry. Last edited by silverdash#0964 on Dec 6, 2014, 4:53:08 PM
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" That is where I disagree with you. The loot table doesn't need to be changed in the slightest. Right now the problem isn't just that the drops you need are extremely rare, it's a problem that not only are they are, but the crafting method is not reliable nor cheap. And this is a problem. By making it so that you can get 5 and 6L reliably and at a reasonable cost you solve this problem. Don't forget the problem is attaining it. The loot table are great, aside the getting the 5L and 6L but that isn't really a problem of the loot table by default, it's a problem of the crafting system itself. Granted you could say that there isn't a way to know for sure which game would be better at the end without trying but I ask how would it make it worse? You gear isn't better because it's 6L, 6L should be the natural state of end game. Better is the affixes it has and by definity it would give you the expected end game gear in the sense that you can combine the gems you need but at the same time you have to farm for the good gear no matter what. And you are wrong by saying more links don't create more diversity. You know it does. Many builds only work at a bare minimum of 5L, some actually need 6 to work at all. by not allowing people to have those many links easily available you are limiting the amount of builds they can create. This is a mathematical truth... Granted, if you create more gems then you create further diversity, this is of course another mathematical truth but so long as you are limiting how many things you can combine together, you are limiting diversity. Having a hard cap is one thing or things would get silly, making it nearly impossible to get to the cap without a huge amount of currency is just ridiculous. "The heavens burned
The stars cried out And under the ashes of infinity Hope, scarred and bleeding breathed it's last." |
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Even with a double 6L and infinite currency. There are only like... 5-10 good builds or so at clearing maps? Naming a few:
bow CoC (90-150 ex), discharge, shatter-chuck and variants, split-arrow+puncture (requires godly gear), spectral throw (requires godly gear worth over 1000 ex!), and RF+FB (strangely enough, cast tiny fb's only while running through the map very quickly relying on the burn) and a few others. No tornado is not one of them. Haven't seen a single good one with epic clearing speeds. They all require a LOT more than just one or 2 6L. Trust me on that. Maybe the RF+FB excluded. Even with infinite money and all items in the world, it's still limited to become a 'god' as there are only so few builds that have the range and damage and survivability (okay and movespeed). And aside from discharge, melee is not exactly viable for a god-build. Last edited by silverdash#0964 on Dec 6, 2014, 5:09:36 PM
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" At level 91 I don't see many things killing you but at lower levels things aren't so simple. Most newbie players don't question themselves why did they died, it's just another BS death to them because the boss is clearly too strong since they don't know enough of the mechanics to be able to ask themselves why did they die. Think of it as if you are playing a MOBA. If you are fighting a much higher skilled oponent you are not going to learn anything, he'll kill so fast and lock you down every time and you don't learn because the skill level is just too different. Also when I say 5L and 6L should be easily available, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with doing it with less, but it should be optional, not forced until you have enoguh currency to be filty rich by that point. You disagree on the defense but the fact is that the chest piece acounts for what? 60%+ of your total base defese? It is the last place you can cut in. If you are not using boots? Who cares? Same for helm or gloves. But the chest piece is the single most important defensive item in your arsenal. Your damage output doesn't makes it work alone, it doesn't matters how hard you hit if you are constantly taking a lot of damage. I am also a fan of really high DPS, but a minimum of survivabillity s expected. The XP loss is very real, you say it's nearly nothing. Die 4 or 5 times to the same boss and then tell me that you didn't took a really good XP loss. Because this happens all the time to newbies. Your granite options is an advanced knowledge thing that newbies again do not have. Let's add that granites are limited time use, if you can't kill the boss that quickly, well, goodbye tankyness. Personally I dislike using flasks for fights safe from healing. The duration is too small so it's nothing I like to rely on. A newbie can copy a tree and he will do better than his own build, he is still going to fail at the point that he cannot get that extra link he needs or at the point where he spent all his money to get that extra link, but on a bad armor that allows him no survivabillity. "The heavens burned
The stars cried out And under the ashes of infinity Hope, scarred and bleeding breathed it's last." |
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" Doesn't all this remove the 6L from the loot table as a prized commodity and change its rarity, hence changing the definition of exciting loot? " Better or worse I've no way to tell until I play that version. Chasing after that elusive 6L is part of the gameplay experience for me now. " Sure, you could see new and possibly interesting combinations if more players had ready access to 6L's, but it'll only be for a couple of levels; without new gem variation and effective combination it's a paper diversity as players will still use the effective end-game combos. I think you're exaggerating when you say "Many builds only work at a bare minimum of 5L". More than a few work with a 4L. |
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It makes 6L not be a prized coodity yes. But them being a prized comodity is wrong in the very first place... That is not Exciting loot as you call it. It's goddamn finally I can make my build which was being held back for so long I just felt like quiting altoghter! Exciting loot is a. Oh look at this great piece with suh a perfect combo of affixes for my character!
No it wouldn't be only for a couple of levels. players do go for the. Oh look, this one has a great clear speed and that one is 10% lower. Who cares if it's 10% lower clear speed if it's a build that you like? people are being streamlined into certain 4L or 5L combos exactly because there is no freedom to do otherwise since the system that was put in place prevents progress and diversity. "The heavens burned
The stars cried out And under the ashes of infinity Hope, scarred and bleeding breathed it's last." |
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Whether it's wrong or right, it's in place. That's the point I'm making; an easily obtained 6L changes the landscape of the game. It isn't as simplistic or isolated a change which you make it out to be.
And no, not really. If you think people are already streamlined into certain 4L or 5L combos, what makes you think an extra linked socket will create a much bigger diversity of skill usage with the current set of gems? |
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