poll: the "like to trade" vs the "forced to trade"

"

johnKeys wrote:

you are wrong, and for once I have a thread-full of people's honest personal experiences with the game, to say you are wrong.
but I figure it won't stop the likes of you from repeating the "trading isn't mandatory in PoE" mantra, just like hundreds of feedback threads from all sorts of people, didn't.
trading in PoE, sure as hell is mandatory, and that is a fact.

Really? So all the people who claim to play solo/self found are just flat out lying huh? For christ's sake you acknowledges that Shags was self found on the first page and then dismissed him, basically saying "your playstyle is a direct contradiction to my loaded poll, so your opinion isn't welcome".

And what you have here, are a bunch of people answering an extremely loaded and absurdly biased question in many different ways. You and a handful of people just saying "The game is impossible to play without trading" doesn't automatically make it true. And it certainly isn't true given all the people out there who play self found and/or solo. You're conveniently ignoring everybody in here saying that they don't mind, or even enjoy trading, or the fact that trading requires far less hassle than you're implying. You're plugging your ears and closing your eyes until someone comes along and agrees with you.

You have zero capacity to digest any objective reasoning, or even facts for that matter. I honestly question how/if you can function in the real world like this.

"

johnKeys wrote:

"

JahIthBer89 wrote:

"

johnKeys wrote:

so here's the thing:
trade should never, ever, fucking ever be mandatory in an ARPG.

It isn't. It certainly makes the game easier, but there are plenty of solo people out there who have finished merc without much trouble. Hell, there was even that guy who did it with all magic gear in HC.

you are wrong, and for once I have a thread-full of people's honest personal experiences with the game, to say you are wrong.
but I figure it won't stop the likes of you from repeating the "trading isn't mandatory in PoE" mantra, just like hundreds of feedback threads from all sorts of people, didn't.
trading in PoE, sure as hell is mandatory, and that is a fact.

No. It isn't mandatory. Subjective opinions, no matter how many of them you have, mean absolutely nothing when you are attempting to prove whether or not something is required, and it's been shown several times that the game is very, very playable without trading. Hell, if I remember right, there was one guy who played through one of the 4-month HC leagues using nothing but fucking blues, and documented the entire thing. I can go find the thread if you want proof.

Now, it can seem mandatory if you limit yourself to a portion of the game in which it is mandatory, and it definitely feels like PoE has a much larger space of mandatory trading in comparison to many other games, but just because you're putting yourself in a cage doesn't mean you don't have the key to let yourself out.

Oh, also...

"

johnKeys wrote:

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Chundadragon wrote:

So how would you solve this? Hand out res gear for free? I somehow think this idea would be a little more laughable than trading.

this kind of answer infuriates the fuck out of me.
why? because I fucking explode when someone acts like PoE is his first-ever ARPG played, when it sure as fuck isn't.

how do other games do actual crafting? how do they do actual risk/reward and player-skill-based progress? how do they make one feel his/her effort is worth something, while still making them pay for mistakes and bad decisions?
how do some other games, have trade as an option without forcing anyone to take part in it?

PoE doesn't exist in the fucking vaccum of space, Jesus fucking Christ.
GGG are more than welcome to take ideas from other games, instead of acting like they know better, in their first fucking game ever made...

Your comment is shitty and you should feel shitty. Saying "oh there are games that do it well, do it like them!" has absolutely no constructive effect whatsoever.

Now, if you want to actually start improving things, here's what you do. Find the aspects of a trading/crafting system that you really like, figure out why you like them, then make a feasible suggestion with your analysis. Specific examples really help, since they give the devs a chance to actually go look at the other game, see what you mean, then see how they can apply it. But abstractly going "hurf durf there's good systems in other games, use those" without giving examples or analysis is a massive cop-out.

Also, I agree with Chundadragon's earlier post about not needing so many fucking threads about this shit. One's enough; perhaps we could make a sticky about commonly-discussed issues so that GD doesn't keep flooding with hundreds of threads of the same drivel?

you are new here, aren't you @TherosPherae?

I made more suggestions and provided more concrete examples than I can count, since the start of Open Beta.
and countless other people have made even more, even better suggestions, since Closed Beta at least, if not Alpha.

Megabytes of text, multiplied by thousands of good, detailed threads.

GGG - for lack of a better description - fucking wiped their fucking asses with all those, and proceeded to make the game an RNG-ridden trade-fest with a wide-open door for RMT, and technical issues that have been here for literally years, and saw little improvement if any.

I'm fucking sick of it all, to be honest.
any sane man would - and I'm losing my sanity by the minute.

I came back after a business trip, and started having fun with the game again.
started coming back to the things GGG did so damn right.
but the flaws of the game, and most importantly GGG's fucking stubbornness to leave those flaws untouched - really gets to me.
I can't really remember the last time a game brought me so much fun for such a long time, while simultaneously frustrating and enraging the fuck out of me, with things that make no fucking sense.

why can't it be only the fun, without the frustration? this game has what it takes.
in more ways than one, it reminds me of the ARPG and RPG classics I played since the 80s.
GGG, and white-knighting fanboys like yourself screaming "all is fine and bugs are features" - are what's holding it back.
yes, I just said it. because I'm angry with people twisting facts and throwing bullshit arguments, just like some of those people might be angry with me doing the same, at times.

Look Diablo3.

Do not need trade.

They are happy.


But , in POE

Trade is being persecuted.

I do not want to trade , but I can't .

Because , there is no other way.

Someone say POE can do other way ? Because they never play Diablo3 , they don't know what is FSL.

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play2013 wrote:

Look Diablo3.

Do not need trade.

They are happy.


But , in POE

Trade is being persecuted.

I do not want to trade , but I can't .

Because , there is no other way.

Someone say POE can do other way ? Because they never play Diablo3 , they don't know what is FSL.

Go play D3 then. PoE is NOT--and should never be--what D3 is. D3 is/was a colossal failure, and the self-found elements they implemented were just a lazy way out of a hard situation for their dev team. GGG is better than that, as they have proven by the product we have right now, and they have room for improvement, but being more like their weakest competitor is not the way to do that.

"

play2013 wrote:

Look Diablo3.

Do not need trade.

They are happy.


But , in POE

Trade is being persecuted.

I do not want to trade , but I can't .

Because , there is no other way.

oh no you don't.

D3, was a way to fucking shamelessly milk the fans of any penny and dime they had.
and when they were done milking, they actually took a 180-degree turn towards how it was supposed to be in the first place. yeah, thank you very fucking much ActiBlizzard.
I'm a longtime Blizzard fanboy. pretty much since "Blackthrone" and "The Lost Wikings".
what Craptivision did, cannot be forgiven. they killed a fucking legacy.
and for what? a couple more dollars? they should be fucking ashamed of themselves.

GGG aren't Blizzard. they just started building-up their legacy.
and they are doing so in a half-assed way - making a game that can indeed be a legacy-starter, then artificially limiting it and holding it back.
I just don't understand it. they aren't doing it for greed, obviously - so for what?
why, GGG? fucking why?
please, reconsider.
please, make a "Path Of Exile 2" that would be everything this game could have been.

yeah I know: a grown man in his early 40s - family, job and all - whining and raging like an adolescent teenage fanboy...
can't help it. games strike a nerve in me, for better and for worse.
always have.

@JohnKeyes

Right on the money, bro. My sentiments exactly.

Diablo3 is good.

They do not need trade.

Treasure found on their own.




POE is Tragedy.

No transaction can not be.

There is no treasures.



I do not want to play with the transaction.

I just want to find their own treasures.

"

johnKeys wrote:

you are new here, aren't you @TherosPherae?

Nah, I just don't spend too much time here.

"

johnKeys wrote:

I made more suggestions and provided more concrete examples than I can count, since the start of Open Beta.
and countless other people have made even more, even better suggestions, since Closed Beta at least, if not Alpha.

Megabytes of text, multiplied by thousands of good, detailed threads.

GGG - for lack of a better description - fucking wiped their fucking asses with all those, and proceeded to make the game an RNG-ridden trade-fest with a wide-open door for RMT, and technical issues that have been here for literally years, and saw little improvement if any.

How do you know this? Have you received messages from GGG staff going "lol your suggestions all suck, excpet as toilet paper lololol"? Is it not conceivable that they've taken good input from the forums and started implementing it, but have yet to finish doing so due to coding times, press releases, other content releases, and other constraints? I mean, I don't doubt that it's possible that GGG isn't taking a lot of the feedback into account, but I can at least acknowledge that it's also possible that they aren't failing as badly as you continually claim.

Also, it'd be nice if you could link some of your suggestions. Not that I doubt that they exist, but it'd be nice to see which examples you're referring to.

"

johnKeys wrote:

why can't it be only the fun, without the frustration? this game has what it takes.
in more ways than one, it reminds me of the ARPG and RPG classics I played since the 80s.
GGG, and white-knighting fanboys like yourself screaming "all is fine and bugs are features" - are what's holding it back.
yes, I just said it. because I'm angry with people twisting facts, just like some of those people might be angry with me doing the same, at times.

Let me make one thing perfectly clear. I am not white-knighting. This game is flawed as hell, and I've been more than willing to point out those flaws on several occasions - you can ask almost anyone in BLOW my opinion on the unique design of Marylene's Fallacy and they'll be able to give you an in-depth analysis of what it is, what it fails to do, how it's a great concept that failed to live up to its potential because of shitty balancing, et cetera; and I have plenty more flaws I can bring up. The left-behind skills, like Sweep and Shockwave Totem, that serve as little besides noob-traps. Same goes for certain supports - Additional Accuracy and Chance to Flee both deserve a buff. I could go on, but that wouldn't serve much purpose.

However, it does bother me when someone makes a claim which has been shown to be provably false, especially when the subject matter is flawed but good enough to be worth improving. You are pointing to a small hair on a gem and screaming about it to no end as though it were the Mariana Fucking Trench when there are actual scratches on the gem to be concerned about.

I guess what John tries to say, is that in the later stages of the game, if you get screwed by rng you need to resort to trading in order to keep playing and i totally agree with him.

For someone like him, it might be hard to find decent gear or fuse stuff. This isn't very hard to believe. Without trade you are stranded and the solutions might not seem that attractive i. e. Farming merv /piety /dominus with no tomorrow.

In my case, i don't mind farming that much and i can say that i can safely make it to maps solo self found. Map rng was always too much for me though. Take a look at my char list. Believe me when i say that there are many more that i have deleted in the high 80's and i still haven't found a 74+ map. All the ones i run were traded for. Please don't suggest that i don't know how to roll maps.

Even the act of rolling maps takes a huge amount of currency, again, if you dont have rng in your favour. And even if you do, you can't hope to find enough currency in maps at a reasonable pace to keep rolling them.

Now, the good thing is that with strongboxes coming into the regular game, you can hope in rng, again, to spawn you that rare Cartographer's in order for you to progress without trading. But i see that as something positive. It seems that, although rng based GGG is looking for ways to improve our gaming experience without having to rely that much on the trade factor, something John seems to overlook.