OK GGG, Let's try one more time to clarify STASH TAB PURCHACE IMPLEMENTATION please

I'll be very brief.

Chris stated:
"We recently made a change where the contents of a remove-only tab are automatically moved into a new stash tab as one is purchased. This was primarily to fix a technical problem, but happens to also help users who purchase a lot of stash tabs when challenge leagues end and don't want to have to move the items across one at a time."

Christ stated in an email reply:
"Thanks for the mail!

The core problem here is how our stash code works. There's no way to choose which tab is upgraded, which causes a problem in some circumstances where users can receive an unlimited number of stash tabs (without having to do any races). The change to how the stash tab purchases work (where it increases your entitlement of real tabs, rather than forcibly generating a real one each time) was to fix that. We're not really concerned with people using remove-only tabs as long-term storage like they have been doing.

I'm not completely happy with the solution and want to find a better one.

Kind regards,
Chris"
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The current way in which the purchased stash tabs are not added as new ones but remove-only tabs are converted to normal tabs collides head on with Chris' email reply that states I can keep my remove-only tabs as long term storage? (Did he do a Hagrid here.) It's not working that way currently (I wish it was the old way).

Will the real Stash Tab purchase implementation please stand up?

Given that GGG is selling stash tabs as a MTX, if you use stash tabs as long term storage, you are effectively getting free MTX points for playing for a long time (across several 4mo/race leagues). (Personal: I'm not inherently against this.)

Obviously they shouldn't be heavy-handed and directly smash tabs together (and delete any parts of the square peg that doesn't fit into the round hole), but should they be expected to support long-term storage tabs forever? Is there a middle ground (remove-only tabs have a TimeToLive (say, 2 months) after which they are deleted)?

I started the stash tab problem thread on July 4th. To date GGG has not weighed in on this (probably because the current way gave them a fix to the other problem that Chris stated about races and stash tabs that I don't completely understand). Either way their "solution" is in direct conflict with my ability to keep the items from my 3 four month leagues as RO long term storage. GGG created this mess and as such will have to figure a way to code themselves out of it or Chris needs to rescind his email reply to another player asking for clarification on this of "We're not really concerned with people using remove-only tabs as long-term storage like they have been doing." I played many hours to amass what I have and would like to think I can keep it as long as I want to. If GGG has a server storage space problem with that they need to spell it out directly to us. I will respect them more if they do that instead of being mute on the problem.

"

Arrowneous wrote:

Either way their "solution" is in direct conflict with my ability to keep the items from my 3 four month leagues as RO long term storage.

GGG created this mess and as such will have to figure a way to code themselves out of it...

Your "ability" to keep those tabs as long-term storage is from GGG's largess. It was kind of them to give you free long-term storage tabs, but compared to the tabs that you must pay for, seems almost overly generous.

The "mess that they've created" stems from your own decision to expect their gift as something other than a gift. You believe that it is obliged to you, and now GGG is considering taking it away (or, at the very least, they're making other changes they need to make and have no consideration to what happens to their gifts).

It is true that they are not concerned about it, but that's a far cry from actively protecting it.

That's the root problem that I was trying to actually discuss.
- Should GGG be expected to give long-term storage tabs to players that have played a long time?
- If they should not be, then how do they go about slowly fading those tabs out of existence if their existence causes other problems later?

Two more things to point out from the mail reply are:

1.) That is how the current code works, ie. which tab is upgraded is chosen automatically
2.) They are not yet satisfied with the implementation, so we might see changes. I hope for a way to choose which tab gets converted, which would, for all I care, solve this issue.

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rant:

I dont see RO tabs as a "gift" or GGG "benevolence", but as an inevitable consequence of how leagues work in PoE.

Say I have X active tabs. Their number is enough to play in a league, I dont need more of them. When that league ends loot is transferred to the parent and suddenly now in the parent there is more stuff that I have active tabs. But I dont need more active tabs, because X is enough to play in a league.

RO tabs and their long-term nature (or. indefinite storage), is a consequence of:

1.) Stash tab purchases being global to all leagues
2.) Leagues system where loot from the child league is transfered to the parent.

GGG can't (and hasn't) expect that players will buy X*2, X*3.. tabs just because of this implementation, where all they really need to play a league, is X tabs.

E:
Also, RO tabs are not free storage - you paid for that storage, since tab purchases are global to all leagues. It's the system that allows you to occupy the 'same space' multiple times, once for each league active concurrently. If GGG didn't want this, they should have made tab purchases local to a league.

So if there's no way for the tab upgrade code to prioritize tabs, what's stopping it from upgrading a RO tab with a race reward into a standard tab and making it unwithdrawable in future leagues?

You won't have this problem if you just buy all the tabs you want. Then any future remove only tabs will stay remove only.

Edit: and Chris didn't pull a fast one. When he said you could keep stuff in remove only tabs long term, he never said that while doing that you could buy empty tabs in addition to that.

"

mark1030 wrote:

When he said you could keep stuff in remove only tabs long term, he never said that while doing that you could buy empty tabs in addition to that.

That's how the system worked for years up until a few days ago -_-

If they are changing policy (which considering the reply, they aren't), it shouldn't be retroactive. Meaning that RO tabs older than 1.1.5 update should be ignored by this automatic conversion. Only RO tabs generated after 1.1.5 should be eligible for conversion.

pretty simple, as long as i dont get new empty stashtabs i dont buy ones, its their money they are loosing now mine ;)

I'm just glad that Race Rewards Tabs are not affected in any kind. :P