[OUTDATED] Zivko's WoE + BoR build - Seems like the build is dead

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mayainverse wrote:

why take attack speed in cruel isnt the 18% phys damage more dps? also it is a bit more mana efficient.

also this build seems somewhat squishy to burst damage yea you have like 85or something chance to not be hit by attacks/spells but when you do it really hurts since your only life items are 2 rings, belt, gloves, hat.

Attack speed gives more dps, i tested both, since i had phys damage before. Phys dmg is better if you have mana problema, but it's not hard to support skills on mana as it was before the patch.

About damage, new flasks and flask recivery nodes combined with leech are enough to outheal/outleech any damage that goes trough defenses. Once you have decent gear and hih level character, only thing that can kill you is oneshoot attacks like touch of god on palace or uber atziri flameblasts. Not even desync is an issue tbh and thats the main reason i like this build.

Is anyone using Cleave instead of Dual Strike? They buffed Cleave in 1.2 so i'm assuming it's pretty good. I just used a lvl 1 cleave (supported with high lvl gems) and I still did a ton of damage without optimal support gems( faster attacks instead of increased area-Conc effect).

Would cleave (plus Increased Area of Effect) cover more AOE ground than Dual Strike/Melee Splash?

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godflow wrote:

Is anyone using Cleave instead of Dual Strike? They buffed Cleave in 1.2 so i'm assuming it's pretty good. I just used a lvl 1 cleave (supported with high lvl gems) and I still did a ton of damage without optimal support gems( faster attacks instead of increased area-Conc effect).

Would cleave (plus Increased Area of Effect) cover more AOE ground than Dual Strike/Melee Splash?

I am using Cleave + Conc Effect/increased Area of Effect combo and i can say is better than Dual strike + Melee splash combo if you use mana variant of the build since the mana cost for Cleave combo (46) is lower then mana cost for Dual Strike combo (55)

However from my tests Dual Strike + Multistrike + Added Fire + Melee Splash in a BoR >> Cleave + Multistrike + Added Fire + Increased area of Effect in a BoR when it comes to values of DPS tooltip

At my last test which i made 1 week ago when my Cleave was still level 16Q20 it was like ~31k DPS for Dual Strike combo vs ~27k DPS for Cleave combo (both with Hatred and 3x Frenzy Charges)

For single Target DPS : Cleave lv20q20 (with Conc Effect lv20) does for me around ~47k DPS (with Hatred and 3xFrenzy Charges)

Dont know the DPS for single target if we use let's say : Dual Strike + Multistrike + Added Fire Dmg + Weapon Elemental Dmg (in place of Melee Splash) but i dont think is bigger than ~47k DPS (with my stats) which Cleave does (Concentrated Effect boost a lot Cleave's DPS)

Regarding AoE i tend to say that Cleave + Increased Area of Effect has just a bit less range than Dual Strike + Melee Splash but i cant say for sure , if anyone can say for sure which of them has higher range feel free to do it

what are you guys paying for wings? i got one with 306 top end for 5 chaos but it seems that all the b/o listed on xyz are 2/3 exalts for just 30more damage. is that even reasonable? i cant see a unique with around a 12% increase in damage justifying a 1000% price increase. I am on beyond.

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mayainverse wrote:

what are you guys paying for wings? i got one with 306 top end for 5 chaos but it seems that all the b/o listed on xyz are 2/3 exalts for just 30more damage. is that even reasonable? i cant see a unique with around a 12% increase in damage justifying a 1000% price increase. I am on beyond.

My 308 top-end was like 3 chaos I think.

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lilianmarius wrote:

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godflow wrote:

Is anyone using Cleave instead of Dual Strike? They buffed Cleave in 1.2 so i'm assuming it's pretty good. I just used a lvl 1 cleave (supported with high lvl gems) and I still did a ton of damage without optimal support gems( faster attacks instead of increased area-Conc effect).

Would cleave (plus Increased Area of Effect) cover more AOE ground than Dual Strike/Melee Splash?

I am using Cleave + Conc Effect/increased Area of Effect combo and i can say is better than Dual strike + Melee splash combo if you use mana variant of the build since the mana cost for Cleave combo (46) is lower then mana cost for Dual Strike combo (55)

However from my tests Dual Strike + Multistrike + Added Fire + Melee Splash in a BoR >> Cleave + Multistrike + Added Fire + Increased area of Effect in a BoR when it comes to values of DPS tooltip

At my last test which i made 1 week ago when my Cleave was still level 16Q20 it was like ~31k DPS for Dual Strike combo vs ~27k DPS for Cleave combo (both with Hatred and 3x Frenzy Charges)

For single Target DPS : Cleave lv20q20 (with Conc Effect lv20) does for me around ~47k DPS (with Hatred and 3xFrenzy Charges)

Dont know the DPS for single target if we use let's say : Dual Strike + Multistrike + Added Fire Dmg + Weapon Elemental Dmg (in place of Melee Splash) but i dont think is bigger than ~47k DPS (with my stats) which Cleave does (Concentrated Effect boost a lot Cleave's DPS)

Regarding AoE i tend to say that Cleave + Increased Area of Effect has just a bit less range than Dual Strike + Melee Splash but i cant say for sure , if anyone can say for sure which of them has higher range feel free to do it

I've been told that Cleave Tooltip DPS is misleading and looks lower than it is.

Have you been using Herald of Ash at all? Seems to work incredibly well with Cleave.

Also, if you are going cleave, you really need to pick up the Amplify node if you went into the Templar HP nodes, because I'm pretty sure that 8% area damage is just like Conc. effect and adds a lot of dps. My Conc. Effect is at 57%, and gives about 9k dps, and if Amplify works the same as it does, it should give like 1.3k dps.

I'm sure other people will gain even more from the node; I use a life leech gem instead of blood rage/added fire.

I hvaent made it that far, but it'll prob. be the what I pick up in the next couple lvls because I'm 83(beyond). I cna get it in the next 2.

Just a thought. You should gain a large chunk of DPS and 12% increased AoE to boot. Its worth the 2 points, if you are using cleave.

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Destructodave wrote:

Also, if you are going cleave, you really need to pick up the Amplify node if you went into the Templar HP nodes, because I'm pretty sure that 8% area damage is just like Conc. effect and adds a lot of dps. My Conc. Effect is at 57%, and gives about 9k dps, and if Amplify works the same as it does, it should give like 1.3k dps.

I'm sure other people will gain even more from the node; I use a life leech gem instead of blood rage/added fire.

I hvaent made it that far, but it'll prob. be the what I pick up in the next couple lvls because I'm 83(beyond). I cna get it in the next 2.

Just a thought. You should gain a large chunk of DPS and 12% increased AoE to boot. Its worth the 2 points, if you are using cleave.

Great Idea. Plus there are a couple of Reduced Mana Nodes right next to it, which might be useful.

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Destructodave wrote:

Also, if you are going cleave, you really need to pick up the Amplify node if you went into the Templar HP nodes, because I'm pretty sure that 8% area damage is just like Conc. effect and adds a lot of dps. My Conc. Effect is at 57%, and gives about 9k dps, and if Amplify works the same as it does, it should give like 1.3k dps.

I'm sure other people will gain even more from the node; I use a life leech gem instead of blood rage/added fire.

I hvaent made it that far, but it'll prob. be the what I pick up in the next couple lvls because I'm 83(beyond). I cna get it in the next 2.

Just a thought. You should gain a large chunk of DPS and 12% increased AoE to boot. Its worth the 2 points, if you are using cleave.

Amplify does not work the same as concentrated effect. The wording is different.

Concentrated effect : "More"
Amplify : "Increased"

"More" modifiers multiply the damage, "increased" will add to all the other types of "increased" modifiers.

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Destructodave wrote:

Also, if you are going cleave, you really need to pick up the Amplify node if you went into the Templar HP nodes, because I'm pretty sure that 8% area damage is just like Conc. effect and adds a lot of dps. My Conc. Effect is at 57%, and gives about 9k dps, and if Amplify works the same as it does, it should give like 1.3k dps.

I'm sure other people will gain even more from the node; I use a life leech gem instead of blood rage/added fire.

I hvaent made it that far, but it'll prob. be the what I pick up in the next couple lvls because I'm 83(beyond). I cna get it in the next 2.

Just a thought. You should gain a large chunk of DPS and 12% increased AoE to boot. Its worth the 2 points, if you are using cleave.

That node is not that good as it looks , tested it now for science :) and here are the numbers :

Without Amplify in legacy BoR :

Cleave 20/20 + Multistrike 19/20 + Added Fire 20/20 + Increased Area of Effect 21/20 -> 28.214 DPS
Cleave 20/20 + Multistrike 19/20 + Added Fire 20/20 + Concentrated Effect 20 -> 47.013 DPS

With Amplify in legacy BoR :

Cleave 20/20 + Multistrike 19/20 + Added Fire 20/20 + Increased Area of Effect 21/20 -> 28.625 DPS
Cleave 20/20 + Multistrike 19/20 + Added Fire 20/20 + Concentrated Effect 20 -> 47.692 DPS

So the gain with it in my case is only 411 DPS for AoE combo and 679 DPS for single target combo which in my opinion doesn't worth since you need to spend 1 more skill point to get to it , you can better spend those 2 points if you really want more DPS outside the OP optimized tree in 2 x 12% Physical Damage with Axes (Templar Area) or even in 1x 3% ASPD/2% Movement Speed and 1x 6% ASPD/4% Movement Speed (Ranger Area) which are just next to the tree posted by OP and you'll get more DPS by getting those nodes.

You can invest also those 2 points in 5% life nodes which also is a good option.

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godflow wrote:

I've been told that Cleave Tooltip DPS is misleading and looks lower than it is.

Have you been using Herald of Ash at all? Seems to work incredibly well with Cleave.

Yes i am using it from time to time in some mapping where you dont need extra fire and lightning resists from PoF and PoL , i switch these 2 auras with PoE and Herald of Ash for more DPS

This adds 2k more DPS to the tooltip and also has that nice burning damage that proliferates for the mobs which are close one to each other