1.3 The Community's Molten Strike, Face Melting Build!! 1h+shield and 2h variants available

@SteamPOE
Still didn't really answer the question on the key point though on how far this build can go in its original recommended form. Interestingly enough, it looks like you too have tossed aside LC - three dragons as well? Unless I'm mistaken, it's really looking like the only person who's made it to Atziri successfully with this build - and I use the term loosely - did so by swapping in some very elite gear. That's fine. Perhaps the point to its final use is to simply mine Dominus and mid 70's maps in the hope of unearthing the kind of gear to make that final jump.

Interesting point on the AA. Not sure if I have enough energy to warrant it though.

You keep banging the drum on PI, but I don't see how the numbers stack up. It would take five passives to get it if, like most following the outlined skill tree, your nearest point to it is that corner above Point Blank. In return you pick up 60% increased shield defenses, 6% increased chance to block - and 20 Dex of course on the way. Because I recently took the Water Dancing passive I'm only two points away from Testudo, while further to the left I'm only two points away from Aegis. The two combined would also give me 60% increased shield defenses, but I'd get 11% increased chance to block, 40% increased block recovery, and along the way 3% increased attack speed. So for one less passive I get the same shield defense increase but nearly twice as much block - and some extras thrown in. Am I missing something here?
Reply to timbo1959.

Last part first:
Aegis (in start area), Phalanx & Bulwark (upper left tree), Tetsudo, then Precise Interception & Weapon Artistry. Take all of em! They are all worth it.
Block is OP. Block with spell block is double OP.
PI/WA are the final pieces of the puzzle to make it all work.

I can't directly answer the question "how far can the original build go?" mostly because I didn't follow it exactly. I never did go the Lightning Coil route. I happened to have a decent armor on a previous character (still wearing it now). I spent my money on Doriyani items and the shields LR and AA. I got very lucky and found a high roll Three Dragons helm right when my build could use it, but I decided to invest the passive points into more block nodes instead.

Since the main build is a budget build that most people can pick up and play for a few Exalts... at some point we have to decide how much currency and effort we are willing to spend to go beyond the its limitations.

This character is going to be in the thick of things every fight so he has to have rock solid defenses. That is why I chose defenses first. I believe that the Aegis Aurora shield is not necessary. But achieving max block is, along with good spell block. Thus my reasoning above for more block over shock chance.

*Warning: Rudimentary math stuff arguing against Three Dragons*
Spoiler
Doing the math on shock stacks made it clear that on average you'd have to hit something three times before any benefit is gained (first shock stack). On the fourth hit you'll see the 30% damage boost. From there you'll gain another 30% after an average of every fifth hit. The only things that ever survives long enough for me to hit it four times are bosses, rare and magic mobs. The blue guys wouldn't survive til the second shock stack so really Three Dragons helm and the three passive points needed are only useful on rares and bosses. The benefit is speed, not survivability which is nice, but.... the extra block is useful 100% of the time. So the decision was easy for me. Even taking Amplify node for two passive points (and no gear slot) is a wiser choice for its flat 12% damage boost to everything.

I am using AVERAGE numbers here, well average mean, but you know, whatever.


Finding how far the original gear can go with max block and decent spell block is a valid question. Arsenaldo moved away from Three Dragons and Lightning Coil to push that limit further. My gear is nowhere close to his but I'm not sweating it for now. A new set of chest/boots/gloves is coming soon after one more level-up. If I can fit in Rainbowstride boots and keep resists maxed I will do that. That extra spell block is very sexy at this point.

As always, best of luck with your character!
Last edited by SteamPoE2080 on Jun 27, 2014, 1:42:37 AM
Will just give my 2 cents since I added up the 2 trees this morning, Going up to precise intercept then weapon artistry uses 7 passives as does bulwark and Phalanx on the right.
Inc Weapon artistry gives you 10 on block + 40 to dex, 60% inc def from shield, 10% one handed melee physical and 20% melee damage. (its where im going since im playing around with an alphas howl with grace, haste and anger running.)
Other side 16 on block, 35% inc def from shield, 12% block chance applied to spells.
Im thinking of grabbing phalanx later on but of course my passives are getting stretched pretty thin. Also wondering about dropping IR since my dexterity is getting higher. I kinda like messing with the build even though its costing me a bit:) tx all

Last edited by Fhark on Jun 30, 2014, 4:46:28 PM
"
SteamPoE2080 wrote:
Reply to timbo1959.

Last part first:
Aegis (in start area), Phalanx & Bulwark (upper left tree), Tetsudo, then Precise Interception & Weapon Artistry. Take all of em! They are all worth it.
Block is OP. Block with spell block is double OP.
PI/WA are the final pieces of the puzzle to make it all work.

I can't directly answer the question "how far can the original build go?" mostly because I didn't follow it exactly. I never did go the Lightning Coil route. I happened to have a decent armor on a previous character (still wearing it now). I spent my money on Doriyani items and the shields LR and AA. I got very lucky and found a high roll Three Dragons helm right when my build could use it, but I decided to invest the passive points into more block nodes instead.

Since the main build is a budget build that most people can pick up and play for a few Exalts... at some point we have to decide how much currency and effort we are willing to spend to go beyond the its limitations.

This character is going to be in the thick of things every fight so he has to have rock solid defenses. That is why I chose defenses first. I believe that the Aegis Aurora shield is not necessary. But achieving max block is, along with good spell block. Thus my reasoning above for more block over shock chance.

*Warning: Rudimentary math stuff arguing against Three Dragons*
Spoiler
Doing the math on shock stacks made it clear that on average you'd have to hit something three times before any benefit is gained (first shock stack). On the fourth hit you'll see the 30% damage boost. From there you'll gain another 30% after an average of every fifth hit. The only things that ever survives long enough for me to hit it four times are bosses, rare and magic mobs. The blue guys wouldn't survive til the second shock stack so really Three Dragons helm and the three passive points needed are only useful on rares and bosses. The benefit is speed, not survivability which is nice, but.... the extra block is useful 100% of the time. So the decision was easy for me. Even taking Amplify node for two passive points (and no gear slot) is a wiser choice for its flat 12% damage boost to everything.

I am using AVERAGE numbers here, well average mean, but you know, whatever.


Finding how far the original gear can go with max block and decent spell block is a valid question. Arsenaldo moved away from Three Dragons and Lightning Coil to push that limit further. My gear is nowhere close to his but I'm not sweating it for now. A new set of chest/boots/gloves is coming soon after one more level-up. If I can fit in Rainbowstride boots and keep resists maxed I will do that. That extra spell block is very sexy at this point.

As always, best of luck with your character!


if you use a shield like crest of perandus with 40% block on it and a stone of lazhwar (for spell block) all the block nodes on the tree from testudo, phalanx, bulwark, aegis give 33% block. That puts one at 73% block. Just under cap. Plus another 12% of that towards spell as well from the passive before phalanx.

Reaching for precise and weapon artistry is a 7 point investment for 10% block. That's a large investment that on a per point basis is better used with the aforementioned and life. Now, if you have something like aegis aurora (AA as it's been called but I won't use AA since that's generally arctic armor and just provides confusion) then you have 34% block so +33 you have 67%. Then you would need that 10% from 7 points.

Where are you getting the points? That's the question for the individual. IF they can remove even 5 points (that's 6% block so again 73% aegis aurora) to travel then ok. Just be careful what you remove.

Some may think anvil would work too but really that stone of lazhwar with the spell block is darn near impossible to pass up. Also, if really lucky you could corrupt for 4% block but I would never hinge a build on that. It's a luxury if you get it.

I had contemplated using a rathpith with an anvil but the lowered attack and movement speed just seems too much of a pain. Plus, it's only 30% block base and 10% max life isn't as good as flat life on shield.

I use crest for just that. Flat life, lightning resists and high block. Also, since I'm not avatar of fire I can take partial advantage of the life leech.

---------
I took off three dragons at level 84 (you can see my post on the previous page) and really didn't notice much of a difference if any. I gained health from my helmet and more resists.
Pacific (GMT -8) Time
Last edited by Madcow1120 on Jun 27, 2014, 12:44:09 PM
Hi all.

in the build guide, when this is listed:

CWDT + Enduring Cry
CWDT(max) + Immortal Call (Max) + Increased Duration (max)
CWDT + Enfeeble


does this mean 3 seperate CWDT gems and linking each of the above by themselves?

thanks!!

"
Reddog1966 wrote:
Hi all.

in the build guide, when this is listed:

CWDT + Enduring Cry
CWDT(max) + Immortal Call (Max) + Increased Duration (max)
CWDT + Enfeeble


does this mean 3 seperate CWDT gems and linking each of the above by themselves?

thanks!!



Yes it does.
You can combine the Enduring Cry and Enfeeble together if you want. I think they way they work means they wont both go off 100% of the time though, not completely sure. The other option would be to have two 2L chains in an item and just keep them separated that way, still using a total of three CWDT gems.

My Links look like:
CWDT(lvl 1) + Enduring Cry + Elemental Weakness + Molten Shell

CWDT (lvl 9) + Immortal Call + Decoy Totem

I had a Portal gem thrown in to the last link at one point and was surprised to see that it will trigger off of a CWDT.
Last edited by SassyBeard on Jun 28, 2014, 1:09:35 AM
@Madcow. You make some pretty valid points. I too did the math on all the variables for blocking and there are obviously limitations. With all due respect, SteamPOE's segueing from singing PI's praises in isolation to basically suggesting grabbing everything in sight with the abandon of a free-spending millionaire doesn't really add up. All the suggested targets of Aegis, Phalanx, Bulwark, Testudo, PI, WA, and Panther would cost over 20 passives, taking an 80 level build like mine past the 100 point ceiling while sidestepping other aspects such as life, extra dps, and so. Clearly a compromise is needed to make it all work, and gear rationalization seems the obvious way to go if some leeway is to be allowed on the skill tree for other needed qualities. I've thought about the variables Perandus and Aegis Aurora offer as well as dumping Three Dragons and swapping in a good tri-res rare with some life, armour, etc, especially as it would give me back three precious passives I could use elsewhere.

But you know that it's all largely theoretical because of the unbelievable grind necessary to even get into the 90's - let alone near 100. And of course it comes down to whether the entire combination is worth the effort. At best, and in my humble opinion, I think the only way to approach it all from level 80 upwards is to concentrate on the main requirements - additional life, damage and blocking - in equal proportions. At this point I think swapping to Aegis Aurora and grabbing the Testudo and Aegis nodes will provide the best bang for buck regarding blocking - noting the boosts to defense the shield also renders in other areas. Then perhaps chase the three life nodes to the right, and spend another 4 or 5 passives grabbing some extra dps - though being able to transition to a 6 link would offset that need big time! That would take me to about level 90, after which the extra levels could be devoted to the remaining block nodes as they become available - ever more slowly!

Can you detail exactly what kind of effect dumping Three Dragons did have on your numbers and in overall performance without the three nodes? Did you put the points straight back into damage elsewhere to compensate?


Note - I finally found an answer to my main question regarding how far LC could be taken. An entirely different build I grant you, but at least one person has taken out Atziri with LC - and only a five link to boot! And it's a pretty average build as well, especially the weapon. - http://webcdn.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/831603/page/1
Last edited by timbo1959 on Jun 28, 2014, 9:05:56 PM
"
timbo1959 wrote:
@Madcow. You make some pretty valid points. I too did the math on all the variables for blocking and there are obviously limitations. With all due respect, SteamPOE's segueing from singing PI's praises in isolation to basically suggesting grabbing everything in sight with the abandon of a free-spending millionaire doesn't really add up. All the suggested targets of Aegis, Phalanx, Bulwark, Testudo, PI, WA, and Panther would cost over 20 passives, taking an 80 level build like mine past the 100 point ceiling while sidestepping other aspects such as life, extra dps, and so. Clearly a compromise is needed to make it all work, and gear rationalization seems the obvious way to go if some leeway is to be allowed on the skill tree for other needed qualities. I've thought about the variables Perandus and Aegis Aurora offer as well as dumping Three Dragons and swapping in a good tri-res rare with some life, armour, etc, especially as it would give me back three precious passives I could use elsewhere.

But you know that it's all largely theoretical because of the unbelievable grind necessary to even get into the 90's - let alone near 100. And of course it comes down to whether the entire combination is worth the effort. At best, and in my humble opinion, I think the only way to approach it all from level 80 upwards is to concentrate on the main requirements - additional life, damage and blocking - in equal proportions. At this point I think swapping to Aegis Aurora and grabbing the Testudo and Aegis nodes will provide the best bang for buck regarding blocking - noting the boosts to defense the shield also renders in other areas. Then perhaps chase the three life nodes to the right, and spend another 4 or 5 passives grabbing some extra dps - though being able to transition to a 6 link would offset that need big time! That would take me to about level 90, after which the extra levels could be devoted to the remaining block nodes as they become available - ever more slowly!

Can you detail exactly what kind of effect dumping Three Dragons did have on your numbers and in overall performance without the three nodes? Did you put the points straight back into damage elsewhere to compensate?


Note - I finally found an answer to my main question regarding how far LC could be taken. An entirely different build I grant you, but at least one person has taken out Atziri with LC - and only a five link to boot! And it's a pretty average build as well, especially the weapon. - http://webcdn.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/831603/page/1



First, the link you have is to Mathil's Elemental Buzzsaw. It was the first to take out Atziri. I actually played that when his giant 150+ page thread was on page 3 in domination. Then made one in Ambush. It's a fun and versatile build.

Three Dragons does Zero to tooltip numbers. What it does is provide shock stacking to enemies. Sometimes that shock locks the enemy in place. This is most noticeable (obviously) on trash mobs. But trash is just that, trash. You don't need the extra dps on them. Sometimes on piety (farming) I noticed the shock kept her still. Was nice.

When I took the three dragons off I didn't see much loss (if any) in clear speed. The 3 nodes I put towards block grabbing aegis and I needed 1 of the nodes for reserved mana. My variation actually uses mana and 3 auras: Hatred, Purity of Lightning and Tempest Shield (4% more block). My purity of lightning is at level 20 (hit that today) so gives me 5% more resists for total 84%. With Three Dragons off I had to make up the resists (remember it's a tri resist item). What helped was more armor and LIFE. It's a decision of minimal clear speed or life. Easy choice.

As I mentioned, earlier on I think three dragons helped. I think it did increase my damage because things took more hits but as dps goes up I didn't much notice taking it off.

I have 65% total block at level 85. Basically my last 5 levels have been getting block as will the next 2 (bullwark). This will give me a total of 71% block with tempest shield. I can grab the 2 nodes after testudo for max 75% block if I choose. Then finish off on life IF I level more. I use stone of lazhwar and have spell block along with 12% from the phalanx cluster. at 5.1K life, 82% at the time lightning resists and 9.3K tooltip dps I tanked palace dominus.
Pacific (GMT -8) Time
Hi thought i would post my Alpha's howl aura build, im having a lot of fun with it and levelling pretty fast. Im not sure if it will be end game viable but its certainly very fast levelling which if you can afford (mine cost 3ex on ambush) it would easily get you from 64 to 85 or so.
Heres my gear
Spoiler

Ive stopped using the doryanis belt, opting for more life and tri resist, my other defensive measure is life leech gem on my 5l this keeps my health pretty high. My second cwdt im not quite sure about, primarily acts as a trash culler (the molten shell seems to be doing a bit, more then a decoy totem did in that slot).
I tried taking 2 8% aura affects passives off. This was the difference in stats, so I think they are worth it.
ON Tooltip Dmg 10746, 73% attk spd, 6392 ev, chance ev 38%, run speed 36%
OFF Tooltip Dmg 10073 69% attk spd, 5835 ev, chance ev 36%, run speed 35%

This is my passive tree
Spoiler
http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgEAAecEswUtFE0XLxmFGjgaVRpsHRQkqiSwJy8oxTJ-Mok26DbpOlI9_Ep9TDVOKlPfVcZV1lb6Vw1X4lhjWNtZ81uvXz9gS2EhZKNk52aeZ6BqHmqTbmlyqXRBdO1253fleu982YCkhNmE74bRh3aMz49GkAqQVZHOm4OezaC0ogCkrKTCpzCnhKgYrKqsr6-NtPm2QbvtvJ--p8APwBrG2M9l0NDSIdJN1e3dDeNq45_sOO8O8B_yL_MG8772SPcy-tL8xQ==

Thanks for the fun build, cheers Fhark.
Last edited by Fhark on Jul 1, 2014, 4:23:40 AM

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