GGGs reasoning on not making a SFL?

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Morgoth2356 wrote:

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iamstryker wrote:

I demand that GGG remove all hardcore content. I don't play it so of course GGG shouldn't be putting any time into something that I don't enjoy.

Have a nice day.

That almost constantly bashed argument "why do you need separate hardcore leagues when you can simply play hardcore in standard league" (or here one of its variant "if you say that you don't enjoy SFL so there is no need to have a SFL because it forces GGG to spent times needlessly, then I ask this game not having hardcore leagues because it's a waste of time to me") is so wrong in the case of PoE. Anywhere in those SFL threads when someone say "you can play SF in other leagues, no need to have your own league" someone say "you can play hardcore in other leagues, no need for hardcore leagues". But the fact is that in PoE, hardcore leagues do exist, and SFL doesn't. So people who want to play hardcore in hardcore leagues are fully allowed to say "I will play hardcore in its own league", because the devs want them to. But SFL'ers are entitled to nothing.

You responded to my post by bringing up a separate argument.

What my post was about is the fact that GGG works on things that you don't necessarily care about and that's ok. If enough people want something then GGG can justify putting some time into it. Other people not wanting GGG to spend resources on it is not a good reason against it. Or else I can justify whining that hardcore exists simply because I don't play it.

In regards to the argument you brought up, hardcore players like playing in a set environment with real consequences. Trying to emulate that on your own feels wrong and your by yourself doing it. Many of the same reasons for why Hardcore players want their own league is the same as why Self found proponents want one. Pretty easy to understand.

I support the self found league movement but they need to make all gems available. There are still gems that I have NEVER found that need to be accessible.

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Tom1989 wrote:

the biggest problem is people never reached a common understanding of what a SFL should be.

some are very strict toward what is self found. some are not. and some just want better droprate. to be honest most of them(include me) dont really understand the concept of self found at all.

This, and.....

Most of the people asking for it are asking for an additional production baseline that is a significant shift from the existing baseline of the game AND to support both simultaneously.

This makes me think the people asking for it have not ever worked in an engineering or development shop ever in their life....or even thought about the business impact(s) of it. There needs to be a business case for doing such a thing, they are a business after all. Everyone must realize that they must analyze the impact of their decisions or else the game would cease to exist.

Deviation from the current vision would enable SFL....but what is the impact? It would endear some players while alienating others -- possibly losing those players who were here under the existing promised vision. GGG could do this, but is it worth it? Self-founders claim it is because their wallets would suddenly open. There is no way to know that for certain and the only way to find out would be to do it --> alienating some of the existing customer base who does open their wallets regularly already.

Not to mention they seem like they are a very principled company and a shift from something so core to them would possibly cause them to lose passion about their own product (read as future releases not as attractive).

More Baselines = More Level of Effort and possibly slower releases unless the staff is increased with no guarantee of increased revenue. That is how I see it.

Lets not forget that they WILL get it wrong. There are so many permutations of the SFL requested, you will unavoidably alienate even the target customer base on some level as well. Lose-Lose.

There is also a MTX aspect to it if you remove certain things. Certain things drive MTX, including (but not limited to) being able to show it off. What better place to do so than in a group. Some advocates for SFL want the ability to party removed also rather than just permanently allocated BOA items.

The list goes on and on. The statement that there is no impact is just plain wrong though on so many levels.

Core customers being alienated by a new league with no trading still sounds really silly to me.

I would pay money to join a league where other players cannot buy their advantage. I would even consider paying a monthly fee. There needs to be ladder support for this if they want my money though. Also the realm needs to be permanent.

I would purchase a full released hardcopy of this game for my pc if one existed. Lan parties would be badass.

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rob16437 wrote:

I would pay money to join a league where other players cannot buy their advantage. I would even consider paying a monthly fee. There needs to be ladder support for this if they want my money though. Also the realm needs to be permanent.

I would purchase a full released hardcopy of this game for my pc if one existed. Lan parties would be badass.

You know people can make accounts for free, right? Botters just farm the chars to proper lvls and then theyre being sold.

Yeah, sold wearing a set of rags.

Dirk, I thought, once, you were borderline clever forum troll. I now know I was way off.

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TheAnuhart wrote:

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rob16437 wrote:

I would pay money to join a league where other players cannot buy their advantage. I would even consider paying a monthly fee. There needs to be ladder support for this if they want my money though. Also the realm needs to be permanent.

I would purchase a full released hardcopy of this game for my pc if one existed. Lan parties would be badass.

You know people can make accounts for free, right? Botters just farm the chars to proper lvls and then theyre being sold.

Yeah, sold wearing a set of rags.

Dirk, I thought, once, you were borderline clever forum troll. I now know I was way off.

He is right in a sense that unlike a lot of SFL supporters think, SFL won't erase RMT. Account selling will take place. It is not in any way as bad as current RMT possibilities, but there would be RMT. "Selling level 85 ranger with 6L Voltaxic and 30 ex in stash", here you go.

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Morgoth2356 wrote:

He is right in a sense that unlike a lot of SFL supporters think, SFL won't erase RMT. Account selling will take place. It is not in any way as bad as current RMT possibilities, but there would be RMT. "Selling level 85 ranger with 6L Voltaxic and 30 ex in stash", here you go.

I don't think anyone has denied that could, might, even would happen in rare circumstances.

What they say is it would hugely reduce, limit, combat RMT.

To which Jerk replies with 'it will never completely remove'. Nobody ever said it would.

And that ranger has to actually find the voltaxic, has to 6L it with fuses and jewelers they found on that ranger and has also to find the 30 ex and the gear to have gotten it to 85 and farmed, too.

It's so much of a reduction in RMT fluidity, it's almost unlikely to happen.
I mean, what's the chances? The time investment? The cost to the person doing the farming? And therefore, the cost they want back when they sell?

Your JoeRMTer is more likely to stay in standard and buy his voltaxic for much, much cheaper and NOT have it on a gimped character that also can't use his RMTd Kaom's, the character who RMTd Kaom's is on a different, RMTd account, as is the one with Mjolner, not only a separate character but a separate account for each GG item, characters that only have that 1 piece and no other GG items to go with it? WTF?

Both RMT parties are highly likely to not ever touch such a league.

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TheAnuhart wrote:

Nobody ever said it would.

MMMmmmmmmm... :D