Love playing PoE? Tired of trading or RMT - or do you enjoy either? Vote here!

BIS ? lolo ,I'd be happy with a timely upgrade to level 16 necklace still being worn at level 71. hahaha

Many traders just won't get it,they have no comprehension of solo self found and what it entails.

There might be some sort of jealousy thing happening,some sort of epeen insecurity. lol

"

mrpetrov wrote:

"

RagnarokChu wrote:

Dear god why are people still clamoring for a SFL like it'll fix the game.

The entire D3 game is a "SFL" game and it still didn't fix the inherent problems within the game or stopped people from saying that it's shitty.

If you want a "SFL" with no changes to the game other then being "SFL" then your going to be unhappy with the base game anyway,

If you want "SFL" with changes, I have no idea why you think a company should re-balance the entire game for specific style of play. Even then they might still not please everyone and there are billions of ways to do SFL.

SFL is like one of the most vague suggestions in the game right now and is the equivalent of asking for world peace or saying that governments should end world hunger.

You were doing quite well until you compared lobbying for a SFL to seeking world peace.

1. No-one is saying the entire PoE game should become self-found. We are not suggesting a move like D3 for all players. In fact - for me - I would want to continue to play in both a trading league and a SFL. I would garner different enjoyment from both leagues, I do NOT believe for many players they would be a mutually exclusive experience.

2. Just because people (like me) are advocating to TEST a SFL, does NOT mean that we are happy with every other aspect of the game. PoE isn't a perfect game, but it is the best game I've played for years and years. So?

3. If GGG were to test implementing a SFL, I would trust GGG to hash out the details of that, including game balance and any other changes. So I'm not here advocating any particular implementation of a SFL, just to test it in whatever form GGG would see fit.

4. Why do I think GGG should test a SFL and use their limited resources to consider it? Because my hypothesis is that it will garner new and renewed interest in PoE, thereby leading to a sustainably larger player base. It also happens that the vast majority of people that have voted in the poll are in favour of at least testing a SFL, and the vast minority of people are against testing a SFL. It's not a perfect poll, but does anyone else have better evidence regarding general player support for/against testing it? Didn't think so.

P.

1. The D3 was an example that even with a company made SFL the game it still might not fix what people want in a SFL, just because you trust what GGG does in a SFL doesn't mean other people will nor the result of it will even be good or widely played. Paid leagues or a single player game that people can mod but you have to buy the game is realistically much better then a "SFL".

2. You can test a SFL league, turn off chat and trade. I already went over this a SFL league would be you can't trade and only play with other SFL people, unless you want other base changes to the game then you can play SFL already. You don't need to "test" a base SFL league.

3. This is why I compared it to world peace or trying to feed the entire world "I don't know how it's going to be done but I trust someone will be able to do it. It will also be done within my expectations."

Your petitions help nothing in GGG making in a SFL and they are well aware for a long period of time that there is a crowd that likes that sort of thing.

4. Your petition is equivalent of saying do you want to end world hunger or have world peace. People are agreeable to vague statements of that something will be better within their interest without any actual backing on how it'll work. Would half of the people sign it if you enforced the exact version of SFL that other people do not want?

Like for real, SFL petitions and clamoring for it is equivalent to all of the hippies in USA

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

"

mrpetrov wrote:

The good news is that we now have some evidence that actually far more players would like to see GGG test a SFL than people who would not like GGG to test it.

no, thats absolutely not true and you know it. Until you have 200,000 players voting you cant say that at all as you know people will be attracted to the thread because they want it, the ones who dont wont be. Regardless of this if you put up a sign that says 'sign here for free money', which is essentially what you have done, people will sign it. People look at SLF and think "yes, buffed drops, easier game, I want in on that, Im a shit player who is intimidated by trade and game knowledge so the down sides dont effect me anyway". Doesnt mean its good for the game, yes we all want to elect the guy thats going to give us free money, that doesnt mean free money is good, that we need it or would really be happier if we had it.

Firstly, over 1000 people voted on the poll. That's a fairly generous amount considering how absolutely dead this forum is. Secondly, the people who wont vote on this subject are the ones who don't care either way, the ones strongly for, or against, will be the majority of voters (as the poll shows).

SFL is not "free money" because there is no trading, so money is not a concept, and if you think that boosting drop rates a little bit is going to make BiS items rain from the sky, well you are a certain kind of special.

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

Theres tons of player sin this game who are flat out shit players, and they will always be shit players, and they will always whine on about stuff regardless of what is changed. Not saying thats you, but your thread is a beacon for those people so dont be deluded into thinking GGG dont see that pool for what it is, its meaningless in terms of giving them an indicator on what is good for the game.

There are 4 metrics by which we can judge a player's "quality": build, equipment, skill, knowledge.

Builds, well 95% of people copy popular builds, and good builds are readily available, so most everyone is equal on this one.

Skill, lol, yeah this game takes real skill.

Knowledge, comes much more quickly from sources outside the game, ie forums, wikis, streamers, etc.

Equipment, infinitly more easy to gain via trading than by actually playing the game killing monsters.

So basicaly, your so called "shit players" are the ones that actually play the game instead of read forums, trade, watch streamers. Everyone has a different way of playing the game, and not everyone cares about min/maxing at the expense of fun. Trading is not fun, mostly because I'm forced to deal with people like you, my tolerance for immature people is EXTREMELY low.

"

RagnarokChu wrote:

1. The D3 was an example that even with a company made SFL the game it still might not fix what people want in a SFL, just because you trust what GGG does in a SFL doesn't mean other people will nor the result of it will even be good or widely played. Paid leagues or a single player game that people can mod but you have to buy the game is realistically much better then a "SFL".

2. You can test a SFL league, turn off chat and trade. I already went over this a SFL league would be you can't trade and only play with other SFL people, unless you want other base changes to the game then you can play SFL already. You don't need to "test" a base SFL league.

3. This is why I compared it to world peace or trying to feed the entire world "I don't know how it's going to be done but I trust someone will be able to do it. It will also be done within my expectations."

Your petitions help nothing in GGG making in a SFL and they are well aware for a long period of time that there is a crowd that likes that sort of thing.

4. Your petition is equivalent of saying do you want to end world hunger or have world peace. People are agreeable to vague statements of that something will be better within their interest without any actual backing on how it'll work. Would half of the people sign it if you enforced the exact version of SFL that other people do not want?

Like for real, SFL petitions and clamoring for it is equivalent to all of the hippies in USA

Hi RagnarokChu, thanks again for reading the thread and voting, it is much appreciated.

1. I understand that, if we were fortunate enough for GGG to implement a test-SFL, that it may not be to my liking or other people's liking. I'd still be thrilled that they tried and, given how much pleasure PoE has brought to me and others over the years, my inclination is that GGG would do a great job in any implementation. I don't quite get your point in #1 above - GGG might stuff it up - so? Better to try and fail than never to have tried.

2. I'm not advocating for any particular implementation of a SFL. I'm suggesting that whatever implementation GGG go for (hypothetically), that we could test that implementation. I totally agree with you that - if GGG were to test a SFL and if they decided there would be no change to the current game (other than self found items) - then yes, we can test that style of SFL today already. The key difference between us on this point is that you are assuming a SFL version of Ambush/Standard, whereas I am not presupposing any particular style of implementation.

3. The key difference between lobbying for a test SFL and lobbying for world peace/an end to poverty is that: a test SFL is entirely within GGG's sole control whereas world peace and poverty are not in anyone's sole control. You get that, right?

4. There is a potential causality in this poll. It is possible that GGG consider that it gives sufficient evidence for them to reconsider their stance on a SFL. If they do, it is in their power to implement a test SFL. Ergo, the poll has had a causal impact. On the contrary, running a poll asking if people would like to cure cancer/world peace/poverty, has no meaningful chance of having a causal impact relating to its chosen poll subject.

P.

"

Temper wrote:

Guess you can't claim self found at all then. =P

There's only one kind of solo self found and that's 100% including gems.Once you've trade,muled,twinked,get lifted or party lolocpter ride the solo self found ride is over.Nothing you obtain at that point is solo or self found,it's off the back of another character and/or other players.

didnt say it was self found, posted the gear I was using that was self found and the boots as an example of the bit of gear I traded for, insignificant item. Muling gems is still self found. I didnt party or get boosted, it was solo all the way. The point is that its easy to find gear that can take you into maps, and that point still stands no matter how much you try and sidestep it.

No I didnt kill dominus in merciless, why would I? Characters get to the late 90s and beat dominus in maps without ever beating dominus in merciless regularly, Im level 91 in ambush and I dont think Ive killed merc dom, Ive played palace maps though, shrines, courtyards etc, I think courtyard bosses are a lot more worrying than merciless dom. Why would you bother? Theres no reward for it.

"

Temper wrote:

That my highest level character currently on list is 71 and how many hours it may have taken to get it's progression is irrelevant to the subject at hand.What is relevant is the experience I had getting him there and all past characters of similar progression.like wise I don't believe your 74 hardcore character can claim any special level bonus pearls of wisdom. =P

I can however at least type /deaths and be assured it says 0. =)

how many hours it takes you is absolutely relevant when you are talking about how much loot you find in a week and when you are talking about game drop imbalance vs players who are not playing efficiently.



thats the last character I rolled in standard. My current ambush char has 1 death from yolo opening unid strong boxes in a manner you would never do in a hc league. I dont get carried, I dont rely on trade and my group to gear me, I carry my friends, I give/lend them gear and orbs to make their chars work, I sell far more than I buy and Im constantly levels and orders of gear and wealth beyond everyone I play with. Im not some amazing player, Im barely even a good player, and thats why I know for a fact that virtually everyone can play solo self found in the game right now and win, play all the maps etc. All this /deaths solo self found im legit stuff is nonsense, its no more legit than trading, takes no more skill, its just slower. When really good players, people better than both of us can hit lates 60s early 70s on the first session in a new league it just completely discredits any idea that theres problems with the game in this regard that are not learn to play issues.

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

The point is that its easy to find gear that can take you into maps, and that point still stands no matter how much you try and sidestep it.

That may or may not be true but you can't claim it because you did trade. Why did you trade? Because it was a lot easier than waiting for the drop.

Also the possibility of doing it is irrelevant to my view. I'm here because of enjoyability issues with the game, not because it isn't technically possible to beat the game with mediocre rares.

"

Mephasm wrote:

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

"

mrpetrov wrote:

The good news is that we now have some evidence that actually far more players would like to see GGG test a SFL than people who would not like GGG to test it.

no, thats absolutely not true and you know it. Until you have 200,000 players voting you cant say that at all as you know people will be attracted to the thread because they want it, the ones who dont wont be. Regardless of this if you put up a sign that says 'sign here for free money', which is essentially what you have done, people will sign it. People look at SLF and think "yes, buffed drops, easier game, I want in on that, Im a shit player who is intimidated by trade and game knowledge so the down sides dont effect me anyway". Doesnt mean its good for the game, yes we all want to elect the guy thats going to give us free money, that doesnt mean free money is good, that we need it or would really be happier if we had it.

Firstly, over 1000 people voted on the poll. That's a fairly generous amount considering how absolutely dead this forum is. Secondly, the people who wont vote on this subject are the ones who don't care either way, the ones strongly for, or against, will be the majority of voters (as the poll shows).

SFL is not "free money" because there is no trading, so money is not a concept, and if you think that boosting drop rates a little bit is going to make BiS items rain from the sky, well you are a certain kind of special.

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

Theres tons of player sin this game who are flat out shit players, and they will always be shit players, and they will always whine on about stuff regardless of what is changed. Not saying thats you, but your thread is a beacon for those people so dont be deluded into thinking GGG dont see that pool for what it is, its meaningless in terms of giving them an indicator on what is good for the game.

There are 4 metrics by which we can judge a player's "quality": build, equipment, skill, knowledge.

Builds, well 95% of people copy popular builds, and good builds are readily available, so most everyone is equal on this one.

Skill, lol, yeah this game takes real skill.

Knowledge, comes much more quickly from sources outside the game, ie forums, wikis, streamers, etc.

Equipment, infinitly more easy to gain via trading than by actually playing the game killing monsters.

So basicaly, your so called "shit players" are the ones that actually play the game instead of read forums, trade, watch streamers. Everyone has a different way of playing the game, and not everyone cares about min/maxing at the expense of fun. Trading is not fun, mostly because I'm forced to deal with people like you, my tolerance for immature people is EXTREMELY low.

im not being immature, Im 32 years old and Im actually one of the people having a serious convo in this thread and bringing up relevant points that arnt based on emotions like some of you.

I disagree with the majority of what you have said. Understanding the game and the build you are playing comes from in game experience, just because you copy a build doesnt mean you understand it. I dont think 95% of people copy builds and I think theres a difference between copying a build and making a build work, making it work requires more than a lot of people have to give. Hence why so many people on the forums are just doing it wrong, if you have a clue about this game you will know what I am talking about.

Trading is a skill in this game, gear is easier to get from trade? Well yes, if you can afford it, how do you afford it? by selling gear you found... you have to have found an item to trade for an item, this isnt D3 with an RMAH, that whole logic just doesnt work in this game. You dont find trading fun, neither do I, theyre working on a new system for offline trading through the forums, so its all good. I find being in a trade environment fun though, it adds a lot of layers to the game. To be good at trading requires knowledge of builds and items, people cna hate on it all the want, Im not a big trader, but I appreciate that its not something a noob can walk in and win the game with. I respect those who love to trade and are good at it as much as self founders.




Everyone goes on about playing the game vs trading blah blah, and I look at their characters and their tops are somewhere between 70-85... I cant help but find that funny. I PLAY the game more than you guys, I find things myself more than you guys. Someone like Hegemonica who is a trade tycoon plays the game WAYYYYYYY more than I do, finds way more stuff than me. Its just such a flawed argument when you look at the reality of the game.

"

iamstryker wrote:

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

The point is that its easy to find gear that can take you into maps, and that point still stands no matter how much you try and sidestep it.

That may or may not be true but you can't claim it because you did trade. Why did you trade? Because it was a lot easier than waiting for the drop.

no, it is true, and you know its true, so I can claim it. Wasnt easier than waiting, it was just quicker, trading is a pain in the arse. You want a league where its quicker without the bit where you have to trade, you cant be bothered waiting either, and you cant be bothered trading.

Once again let me reiterate why it is unfair to buff drop rates for SFL but before I do let me say that I played self found to level 70 ground slamming things until I farmed enough currency to play trade tycoon.

Its unfair because other players want to play this game and they want to have a good time and fun experience. Items are part of that fun and if GGG buffs drop rates for the SFL they are giving more fun to that group of players specifically which I feel is unfair.

Now I have a dilemma do I play SFL to get moar drops to have more fun or do I stick with trading which is also fun. It will put me in limbo and a lot of others to, to the point where we will just move on. It will create a divide in the community and hatred for one another.

Bottom line is its a bad idea.

If GGG did this at launch it would have been all good because its a system that was implemented.

But if they do it now, that would mean they are giving the minority what they want and when the majority wants something what's going to happen?

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

"

Temper wrote:

Guess you can't claim self found at all then. =P

There's only one kind of solo self found and that's 100% including gems.Once you've trade,muled,twinked,get lifted or party lolocpter ride the solo self found ride is over.Nothing you obtain at that point is solo or self found,it's off the back of another character and/or other players.

didnt say it was self found, posted the gear I was using that was self found and the boots as an example of the bit of gear I traded for, insignificant item. Muling gems is still self found. I didnt party or get boosted, it was solo all the way. The point is that its easy to find gear that can take you into maps, and that point still stands no matter how much you try and sidestep it.

No I didnt kill dominus in merciless, why would I? Characters get to the late 90s and beat dominus in maps without ever beating dominus in merciless regularly, Im level 91 in ambush and I dont think Ive killed merc dom, Ive played palace maps though, shrines, courtyards etc, I think courtyard bosses are a lot more worrying than merciless dom. Why would you bother? Theres no reward for it.

Clearly not solo self found and haven't taken out Dominus.You boosted your own character with another character by muling gems.

Your making claims on solo self found that you currently can't back up with first hand experience.

"

Temper wrote:

That my highest level character currently on list is 71 and how many hours it may have taken to get it's progression is irrelevant to the subject at hand.What is relevant is the experience I had getting him there and all past characters of similar progression.like wise I don't believe your 74 hardcore character can claim any special level bonus pearls of wisdom. =P

I can however at least type /deaths and be assured it says 0. =)

how many hours it takes you is absolutely relevant when you are talking about how much loot you find in a week and when you are talking about game drop imbalance vs players who are not playing efficiently.

Not talking about how much loot anyone finds,I'm talking about potential use and/or gambling rolls on gear.Farming for a week a few hours a night and not coughing up a single upgrade to some very basic equipment 20-30 levels below character level at 70 -75 by drops or gambling is more than lackluster progression.



thats the last character I rolled in standard. My current ambush char has 1 death from yolo opening unid strong boxes in a manner you would never do in a hc league. I dont get carried, I dont rely on trade and my group to gear me, I carry my friends, I give/lend them gear and orbs to make their chars work, I sell far more than I buy and Im constantly levels and orders of gear and wealth beyond everyone I play with. Im not some amazing player, Im barely even a good player, and thats why I know for a fact that virtually everyone can play solo self found in the game right now and win, play all the maps etc. All this /deaths solo self found im legit stuff is nonsense, its no more legit than trading, takes no more skill, its just slower. When really good players, people better than both of us can hit lates 60s early 70s on the first session in a new league it just completely discredits any idea that theres problems with the game in this regard that are not learn to play issues.

but you are relying on trade and admitting it and lolocopter partying.Your *wealth* is irrelevant to a solo self found player as is your trade gotten gear.

You know for a fact that everyone can play solo self found and beat merciless Dominus because .... you trade and party ? lol

never said trading wasn't legit,it's actually encouraged by the GGG,it is however not legit to claim being solo self found while trading and partying.

finally in the last bolded part you seem to be suggesting that everyone should be 24/7 no lifes,of whom mostly dodge content to get ahead of some peer curve and/or ladder to be able to enjoy the game.

Meh,I'm not even interested in maps,they are optional side content and were never meant as meat and potatoes gameplay.True story,search it up. =)