Everything you need to know about Iron Reflexes

ok. guys, i got 2 skill points from piety kill so we can test this already. I am logging off with ability to take IR whenever. so lets get some guesses going and tomorrow we find out 100%

armor - 769
32%
evasion - 841
31%

my evasion rating with NO items equipped is 391 - 19%

http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgQABLEFLQ6tEiAUUhjbIWAotTIJQKBDnESeR35MYFO7U99Y210AXotgS2CIYVJlTXTtdPF674TZhO-ZK5uDnrmrxbBzvqe_1cAPypDM28_40k3V7ey2707x9A==
here is my tree.

so please post your formulas of what you think my Armor value will be after i take IR. the correct formula should get it 100% accurately.

we hopefully will get several formulas/estimates so that i can take IR when i get up in the morning/afternoon.

Can you buy a few white pieces, maybe a few that have only armor and some with only evasion.

Also try to make sure none of your items give any % bonus to armor/evasion so it doesn't cloud the situation.


A good test would be to see what your total armor and evasion are in these cases:


Wearing only items with armor
Before IR - Armor = Evasion =
After IR - Evasion total =

Wearing only items with evasion
Before IR - Armor = Evasion =
After IR - Evasion total =

Wearing only items that give both armor and evasion (even if you only wear one item)
Before IR - Armor = Evasion =
After IR - Evasion total =


I'm also very curios about how a pure armor node would affect the IR total if you dont wear any items with armor on them.
You could test it by taking IR, then wear only items that give evasion and take the Armor node that gives +12% armor and see if your total evasion goes up. (some say it wont because you aren't wearing anything with armor so it is +12% of nothing, others say IR converts everything to armor and then then +12% is applied... which is it?)


Wearing only items with evasion
With IR - Evasion =
After taking +12% armor node - Evasion =





Anyway, many thanks for testing this! I know your results will have a big impact on my future build, I'm still too low level to test it.

"

ok. guys, i got 2 skill points from piety kill so we can test this already. I am logging off with ability to take IR whenever. so lets get some guesses going and tomorrow we find out 100%

armor - 769
32%
evasion - 841
31%

my evasion rating with NO items equipped is 391 - 19%

Not enough information. Need your

- level
- Dexterity as well as any
- evade% or other
- armor% nodes aside from L&S; also need your
- armor from gear and
- evade from gear listed separately

For example, I don't know how much 841 evasion is from the dexterity multiplier and how much is from flat evasion. You could be a naked level 5 with 731% evade (or 3655 Dex), or a geared <insertlevel> with 0 dex. Or anywhere in between.

"

EasymodeX wrote:

"

ok. guys, i got 2 skill points from piety kill so we can test this already. I am logging off with ability to take IR whenever. so lets get some guesses going and tomorrow we find out 100%

armor - 769
32%
evasion - 841
31%

my evasion rating with NO items equipped is 391 - 19%

Not enough information. Need your

- level
- Dexterity as well as any
- evade% or other
- armor% nodes aside from L&S; also need your
- armor from gear and
- evade from gear listed separately

For example, I don't know how much 841 evasion is from the dexterity multiplier and how much is from flat evasion. You could be a naked level 5 with 731% evade (or 3655 Dex), or a geared <insertlevel> with 0 dex. Or anywhere in between.

my lvl is 40. my tree is in my post. i have taken no armor% nodes. my total dexterity is 144. i have 12 dex from items.

boots - 147 armor (55% increased armor)
gloves - 95 evasion
ring - 10 evasion
chest - 144 armor
helm - 86 armor 86 evasion (57% increased armor and evasion)

anything else?

i have picked up 3 chest pieces. 1 with 231 evasion 1 with 127armor&evasion 1 with 231 armor to check rates after i take IR. lets get some formulas and your guesses so we can test this.

I have bad news for you, man. You better pick those steel skin circles instead of leather and steel. Because bonus of 102% from 6 points of Steel skin will work both on armor and evasion (add also some bonus from your dex to evasion) but Leather and Steel bonus work only for each parametr separately, i mean your 104% boost from 9 points will work like 104% bonus to armor and 104% bonus to evasion, not 208% bonus to evasion.

With your build your evasion willonly be summed with armor and thats it, but if you had Steel skin it would also benefit from armor bonuses of it.

You will have aprox 1610 armor.

"

my tree is in my post.

Keke my bad, I don't usually look at those at work.

Level 40 = 50 + 120 = 170 base evasion.
144 Dex = 28.8 evade%.
377 armor from gear (assuming % increased armor mod is 'local')
191 evasion from gear (assuming % L&S mod is 'local')
104% armor from L&S
104% evade from L&S

With your existing gear, expected stats:

(170 + 191) * (2.328) = 840.4 evade.
(377) * (2.04) = 769.1 armor.

So non-IR formulas check out (validates we have all the data we need).

IR predictions (same gear/level/dex/passives)

1609.5: LS only applied once
2483.5: LS applied twice on evade (on evade as evade% and after conversion as armor%), multiplicative
1984.9: LS applied twice on evade (on evade as evade% and after conversion as armor%), additive

I'm guessing it's the first one because the wiki says it's only applied once, and it's not abusable.

IR predictions (same gear/level/dex/+10% armor passive/LS only applied once)

1647.2: Armor% only affects armor-sourced armor
1683.3: Armor% affects evade-sourced armor, additive
1731.2: Armor% affects evade-sourced armor, multiplicative

"

EasymodeX wrote:

"

my tree is in my post.

Keke my bad, I don't usually look at those at work.

Level 40 = 50 + 120 = 170 base evasion.
144 Dex = 28.8 evade%.
377 armor from gear (assuming % increased armor mod is 'local')
191 evasion from gear (assuming % L&S mod is 'local')
104% armor from L&S
104% evade from L&S

With your existing gear, expected stats:

(170 + 191) * (2.328) = 840.4 evade.
(377) * (2.04) = 769.1 armor.

So non-IR formulas check out (validates we have all the data we need).

IR predictions (same gear/level/dex/passives)

1609.5: LS only applied once
2483.5: LS applied twice on evade (on evade as evade% and after conversion as armor%), multiplicative
1984.9: LS applied twice on evade (on evade as evade% and after conversion as armor%), additive

I'm guessing it's the first one because the wiki says it's only applied once, and it's not abusable.

IR predictions (same gear/level/dex/+10% armor passive/LS only applied once)

1647.2: Armor% only affects armor-sourced armor
1683.3: Armor% affects evade-sourced armor, additive
1731.2: Armor% affects evade-sourced armor, multiplicative

everything correct.

any other guesses before i take IR tonight when i get home from work?
so EasymodeX if as you anticipate the value ends up 1609... does that mean LS and IR do not work together effectively?

Well, assuming L&S is only applied once, then SS is better with IR. Don't take LS+IR unless you've already taken nearby SS nodes. You may as well get the higher % bonus. This is already the common recommendation.


The real question is how armor% (SS) interacts with the IR'd evade rates. The impact becomes how useful it is to stack both SS and L&S. Depending on the result, it may be better to mix both SS and LS, or just SS.

Side comment: node cost is also important to note. The passive tree has the big passives typically after a few small ones. If you can hit a big LS passive for 1 point (24%), that's more efficient than 2 small and 1 big SS node (50%, or 16% per node).

As a general note, when using IR, it's probably best to use pure Evade armor, assuming the values are vaguely similar between the 3 types of armor. Regardless of how the nodes go, you have some amount of Dex, which has an evade modifier. As long as armor% mods affect the IR'd evade, then you're winning with Evade armor.



In any case, the most likely result is that L&S is a solution you may only want to use for "regular" Duelist armor (hybrid armor+evade) while making your main physical defense Block via shield or DW, and your general defense being some form of HP/regen/flasks.

Armor nodes multiply evasion rating from Grace aura additively with the Dexterity multiplier. I assume it functions the same with all evasion rating.

Out of curiosity, I changed from armor to L&S. I saw a roughly 6% drop in overall armor, which leads me to believe that these skills are calculated AFTER iron reflexes. Granted I'm fairly low level so the effects may be subtle, but it seems to me that regardless of gear, armor is the better choice.