Everything you need to know about Iron Reflexes

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DarkenDragon wrote:

I donno if he saw that right, but that doesnt look right at all.

you dont add armor boost and evasion boost together. they even note it was incorrect in that post as well.

the real equation should be
Final armour = base armour * (1 + %armour) + base evasion * (1 + %evasion)

basically your applying all modification before converting

I'm really tired atm, but wouldn't this calculation imply that something like Grace would only be multiplied by Evasion nodes and/or Dexterity bonus when you have Iron Reflexes?

Edit - I ask because in the current build of the game, my armor node bonuses (52% from Duelist start armor island) and Dexterity evasion bonus (231 dex = +46% evasion bonus) work additively (+98%) when I activate Grace while using Iron Reflexes (1,054 from current Grace * 0.98 = 1,032.92 bonus, which is rounded up to 1,033 in game) resulting in a gain of 2,087 armor gained.

So when you take iron reflexes, do you lose your evasion rating since it is converted to armor?

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m1k3yk wrote:

So when you take iron reflexes, do you lose your evasion rating since it is converted to armor?

Yes, once you take Iron Reflexes you will only have base Evasion chance (5%). This is why it is often taken with Unwavering Stance, since the downside of that (cannot evade) is not much to give for the benefits (never stunned or block-stunned).

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vacantskies wrote:

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ivkoto77777 wrote:

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tgbrooks wrote:

Thank you.

In particular, this means that Steel Skin (+30% armor) is less useful than Leather and Steel (+24% armor and evasion).

(Edit: of course this is assuming you have high evasion from armor. If your armor is significantly higher on your items, then Steel Skin would be better. (But then why get IR?))

Is this correct??? I'm making a duelist build atm, but I can't build it if I'm not sure about this. Would love to have the correct info on the matter!!!

If you are implying that you will get 24% applied twice to any evasion you have, I don't think that is correct. You will receive a 24% bonus to all armor and evasion.

If I have 10% increased evasion AND armour with 100 evasion on me, how much armour do I get in the end?
110 evasion = 110 armour
or
110 evasion = 110 armour * 1.1 = 121 armour???

interesting, finally some actual numbers to work with, (im too low and dont want to play around with regret orbs to test all this out)

so in that post I linked, the person did mention that anything that applied to the stat to be converted to will affect the previous stat too.

so Im geussing the original formula given is correct. still making Leather and steel a better choice cuz then its applying 16% increase to the evasion.

but this sounds like a bug still or poor programming.

really the way I see it should be is either 1. you apply the modification before converting, thus you can increase the inital stat as much as possible, then that would convert it giving a decent amount.

the other way is that once it does everything above, but with an additional bonus that the new value would get to increase the value more. cuz its a new armor amount.

so the first equation is what I posted earlier, the second one would be

total armor = (base armor *(1+armor bonus)) + (base evasion * (1+evasion bonus)) *(1+armor bonus))

which if we simplify it with algebra it would be total armor (base armor + (base evasion * (1+ evasion bonus)) *(1+armor bonus)

which still doesnt become what was posted earlier of
TA = (BA * (1+AB)) + (BE * (1+AB+EB) which is what your saying happens to be true..... so... yea thats just weird. I really think they just made their equations wrong. cuz it would make no sense why the armor bonus should be applied to the evasion bonus before it becomes armor.

Clarification by a dev is required :/

I'm planning to do some L&S testing when I finish getting my Merciless refund points. From what testing I've seen, L&S is only applying an 8% additive bonus with Iron Reflexes. This would make more sense to me if the Dexterity bonus wasn't doing anything. Not really sure what to make of that.

ok I think I finally figured out why they did what they did.

TA = Total Armor
BA = Base armor
BE = Base Evasion
AB = Armor Bonus
EB = Evasion Bonus
Dex = Dexterity
so if you did my theory of it being

TA = (BA*(1+AB))+(BE*(1+EB))*(1+AB)

you'll end up with a higher multiplier than expected, because 2 positive multipliers always produce a higher value than if they were added together. so if EB and AB were 8 each, they would end up being 1.08*1.08 = 1.1664 instead of just 1.16.

so thats why they add the evasion and armor bonus together, to keep the modification value smaller

so I applogize, the original value would be correct if they were to assume they were trying to keep the values smaller and if they wanted the converted Evasion to also benefit from the armor side of things.

though the question does beg if Leather and Steel provides only 8% increase, or 16%

because if the formula is truly
TA = (BA*(1+AB))+(BE*(1+EB+AB)) then it really should be 16% if we took the wording literally. but the patch notes here http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/49469 does state that they prevented the leather and steel passive from applying double effect. not sure what it really means if it applies both armor and evasion portion only to their respective stats instead of giving armor bonus to both evasion and armor, or if you only get 8% to either evasion or to armor.

so really if anyone wishes to do some testing with this, that is what should be tested. to see if the armor portion of L&S is applied once to each, or if only armor or the evasion is applied

Someone in my build thread said they tested it and the numbers they posted indicated it only applies once (8%) to the post-conversion armor from Evasion Rating. This makes the nodes strictly inferior to Armor nodes even in full Evasion gear, which is a little counter-intuitive to me but I understand the reasoning.

What I'm most curious about right now is whether or not Frenzy Evasion per Charge node will actually do anything with Iron Reflexes taken. My understanding of how Iron Reflexes works right now is that this node will not result in any armor increase per charge, right?

Leather and Steel definitely only applies once...

The implication of this is that Armor nodes are significantly better than Evasion nodes because they buff both evasion and armor. The evasion nodes will not buff granite flask. People have this idea that starting ranger and grabbing the evasion nodes is going to be efficient, but it actually makes no sense because it's only buffing their meager evasion stats while getting armor nodes would buff everything. Even in it's nerfed state 4000 armor from granite is more than anyone will ever realistically have on gear.