Is there not, possibly, another issue at hand here?
Spoiler
I propose that the issue is the over-inflated value that players have assigned to "unique" items due to the typical properties of said items in a number of games. The term "unique" as applied to these items is 100% oxymoronic. Once you have even two instances of said item in a league it is, by definition, no longer "unique". I blame Blizzard for pushing this oxymoronic thought onto players, and then blame players for buying into it as fully as they have.
Now, don't get me wrong, I understand why said "unique" items are desirable. They have, for the most part, static mod sets that only vary in numerical values between instances of the item(s). This allows players to, with minimal thought and effort, work those items in such a way that they might more easily access certain builds and play styles. And, while there is nothing wrong with that, it can, ultimately, lead to stagnation in perceived build viability, reducing "what is being played" to a handful of cookie-cutter alternatives.
IMO, far too many gamers are willing to accept being pigeon-holed into gear/skill/build combinations because it is the path of least resistance to viability. Many MMO's and other games promote this by having BiS "unique/legendary" items that are custom-tailored to specific build types. Gamers have become accustomed to "paint by numbers" character building/skill choice/gearing, regardless of the enjoyment factor.
Then, along comes a game like PoE. A game that offers the player both an opportunity to "unlock" builds with certain uniques, and then, through passive choices, skill gem and support usages, and other gearing options, turn those builds into something far more powerful. I am willing to bet that for every build that "requires" a unique to be "viable" there are options for the player to replicate said build without the unique. I am willing to admit that accomplishing this may be much harder without the unique, but that does not mean it cannot be done.
Basically, the issue is still with the players and their, potentially unrealistic from a game design standpoint, expectations.
Two cars at a stoplight, a Ferrari and a station wagon. Which one makes it to the next light first? On the surface, the Ferrari, until you look under the hood of the station wagon and see that the owner has taken the time and put in the work to nitro-charge the over-bore, turbo-boosted Corvette engine pulled from a junked '77 Stingray and paired it with the perfect transmission. Now, which owner has more satisfaction when they get to that light? Which one is able to more fully appreciate their accomplishment?
These issues have less to do with actual, in-game realities than they do with play styles, expectations, and player choice/perceptions.
I like this post. I like the analogy you've drawn as well, though I'm not sure I agree with it. I feel like the Ferrari is more like the 550dps 1 hander or 550dps bow that you get from a mirror, while the Station Wagon is the car you build completely from a Summit catalog right down to the mounts and T55 conversion kit, which would be the (as correctly pointed out falsely named) uniques. More so because many of the uniques are not that great on there own, but have ridiculous synergy when used with other uniques. In much the same way the 383 stroker kit you get for that vette engine does nothing without the 4 bolt main 350 block.
To someone with experience, both can be deemed cookie cutter, but the one is built and does give more satisfaction. Some of these uniques are closer to BiS (like soultaker) but is the extra aura from using Soultaker really worth the extra 250+ DPS you can conceivably get on a one hander? It all depends on how you build it. My "Main" in domination (though not first) is a facebreaker. While several of the slots then have BiS items that go in them, it actually requires far more careful selection around rings and amulet than my rare equipped double striker.
Part of this is that those of us who played a year in Open Beta saw changes that we feel are not in the best interest of the game from beta to release, which saw far bigger changes than all the changes in Open Beta combined. All of these items existed in Open Beta (several in much stronger forms and are now legacy) and there wasn't really a problem with EVERYONE owning the same items in the last league.
You do reach a saturation point in the parent leagues because nothing disappears, but when they decided to make things legacy and in effect gave some people (myself included) literally hundreds of exalts of gear overnight by not wiping them, they showed their intentions with parent leagues. The temporary leagues were much more enjoyable in the last 4 month circle. That's simply fact for most people who really put a lot of time into both of them. The change being advocated by both the OP and myself, is a reversion back to the way things worked in the last league, because it was simply more enjoyable.
Races are another aspect of the game both OP and myself have expressed frustration with, and the playstyle in them is much closer to the kind of play you describe than I believe leagues should have. The problem with them, is that for the current block of around 30 races, there is no way an American who works normal hours can participate in a single one.
It's worth pointing out that obviously, I love this game. I've given it more money than I've ever given a video game before, and it's a FREE game. That said, there are changes that I feel are detrimental to it, and I'm going to point it out when I see that happen, and lobby for change.
Anarchy/Onslaught T shirt
Domination/Nemesis T shirt
Tempest/War Bands T shirt
Is there not, possibly, another issue at hand here?
Spoiler
I propose that the issue is the over-inflated value that players have assigned to "unique" items due to the typical properties of said items in a number of games. The term "unique" as applied to these items is 100% oxymoronic. Once you have even two instances of said item in a league it is, by definition, no longer "unique". I blame Blizzard for pushing this oxymoronic thought onto players, and then blame players for buying into it as fully as they have.
Now, don't get me wrong, I understand why said "unique" items are desirable. They have, for the most part, static mod sets that only vary in numerical values between instances of the item(s). This allows players to, with minimal thought and effort, work those items in such a way that they might more easily access certain builds and play styles. And, while there is nothing wrong with that, it can, ultimately, lead to stagnation in perceived build viability, reducing "what is being played" to a handful of cookie-cutter alternatives.
IMO, far too many gamers are willing to accept being pigeon-holed into gear/skill/build combinations because it is the path of least resistance to viability. Many MMO's and other games promote this by having BiS "unique/legendary" items that are custom-tailored to specific build types. Gamers have become accustomed to "paint by numbers" character building/skill choice/gearing, regardless of the enjoyment factor.
Then, along comes a game like PoE. A game that offers the player both an opportunity to "unlock" builds with certain uniques, and then, through passive choices, skill gem and support usages, and other gearing options, turn those builds into something far more powerful. I am willing to bet that for every build that "requires" a unique to be "viable" there are options for the player to replicate said build without the unique. I am willing to admit that accomplishing this may be much harder without the unique, but that does not mean it cannot be done.
Basically, the issue is still with the players and their, potentially unrealistic from a game design standpoint, expectations.
Two cars at a stoplight, a Ferrari and a station wagon. Which one makes it to the next light first? On the surface, the Ferrari, until you look under the hood of the station wagon and see that the owner has taken the time and put in the work to nitro-charge the over-bore, turbo-boosted Corvette engine pulled from a junked '77 Stingray and paired it with the perfect transmission. Now, which owner has more satisfaction when they get to that light? Which one is able to more fully appreciate their accomplishment?
These issues have less to do with actual, in-game realities than they do with play styles, expectations, and player choice/perceptions.
Spoiler
I like this post. I like the analogy you've drawn as well, though I'm not sure I agree with it. I feel like the Ferrari is more like the 550dps 1 hander or 550dps bow that you get from a mirror, while the Station Wagon is the car you build completely from a Summit catalog right down to the mounts and T55 conversion kit, which would be the (as correctly pointed out falsely named) uniques. More so because many of the uniques are not that great on there own, but have ridiculous synergy when used with other uniques. In much the same way the 383 stroker kit you get for that vette engine does nothing without the 4 bolt main 350 block.
To someone with experience, both can be deemed cookie cutter, but the one is built and does give more satisfaction. Some of these uniques are closer to BiS (like soultaker) but is the extra aura from using Soultaker really worth the extra 250+ DPS you can conceivably get on a one hander? It all depends on how you build it. My "Main" in domination (though not first) is a facebreaker. While several of the slots then have BiS items that go in them, it actually requires far more careful selection around rings and amulet than my rare equipped double striker.
Part of this is that those of us who played a year in Open Beta saw changes that we feel are not in the best interest of the game from beta to release, which saw far bigger changes than all the changes in Open Beta combined. All of these items existed in Open Beta (several in much stronger forms and are now legacy) and there wasn't really a problem with EVERYONE owning the same items in the last league.
You do reach a saturation point in the parent leagues because nothing disappears, but when they decided to make things legacy and in effect gave some people (myself included) literally hundreds of exalts of gear overnight by not wiping them, they showed their intentions with parent leagues. The temporary leagues were much more enjoyable in the last 4 month circle. That's simply fact for most people who really put a lot of time into both of them. The change being advocated by both the OP and myself, is a reversion back to the way things worked in the last league, because it was simply more enjoyable.
Races are another aspect of the game both OP and myself have expressed frustration with, and the playstyle in them is much closer to the kind of play you describe than I believe leagues should have. The problem with them, is that for the current block of around 30 races, there is no way an American who works normal hours can participate in a single one.
It's worth pointing out that obviously, I love this game. I've given it more money than I've ever given a video game before, and it's a FREE game. That said, there are changes that I feel are detrimental to it, and I'm going to point it out when I see that happen, and lobby for change.
Spoiler
Man... I couldn't have said it any better myself.. +1
1) You can no longer trade orbs and MUST use them for crafting
2) Self Found League
Anything other than that will probably do basically nothing. Trading is simply better than playing the game.
Your first solution is very interesting. It would truly create a "barter economy" and we already know that they can easily make it happen due to the "new account below lv25, cannot trade currency" restriction.
Is there not, possibly, another issue at hand here?
Spoiler
I propose that the issue is the over-inflated value that players have assigned to "unique" items due to the typical properties of said items in a number of games. The term "unique" as applied to these items is 100% oxymoronic. Once you have even two instances of said item in a league it is, by definition, no longer "unique". I blame Blizzard for pushing this oxymoronic thought onto players, and then blame players for buying into it as fully as they have.
Now, don't get me wrong, I understand why said "unique" items are desirable. They have, for the most part, static mod sets that only vary in numerical values between instances of the item(s). This allows players to, with minimal thought and effort, work those items in such a way that they might more easily access certain builds and play styles. And, while there is nothing wrong with that, it can, ultimately, lead to stagnation in perceived build viability, reducing "what is being played" to a handful of cookie-cutter alternatives.
IMO, far too many gamers are willing to accept being pigeon-holed into gear/skill/build combinations because it is the path of least resistance to viability. Many MMO's and other games promote this by having BiS "unique/legendary" items that are custom-tailored to specific build types. Gamers have become accustomed to "paint by numbers" character building/skill choice/gearing, regardless of the enjoyment factor.
Then, along comes a game like PoE. A game that offers the player both an opportunity to "unlock" builds with certain uniques, and then, through passive choices, skill gem and support usages, and other gearing options, turn those builds into something far more powerful. I am willing to bet that for every build that "requires" a unique to be "viable" there are options for the player to replicate said build without the unique. I am willing to admit that accomplishing this may be much harder without the unique, but that does not mean it cannot be done.
Basically, the issue is still with the players and their, potentially unrealistic from a game design standpoint, expectations.
Two cars at a stoplight, a Ferrari and a station wagon. Which one makes it to the next light first? On the surface, the Ferrari, until you look under the hood of the station wagon and see that the owner has taken the time and put in the work to nitro-charge the over-bore, turbo-boosted Corvette engine pulled from a junked '77 Stingray and paired it with the perfect transmission. Now, which owner has more satisfaction when they get to that light? Which one is able to more fully appreciate their accomplishment?
These issues have less to do with actual, in-game realities than they do with play styles, expectations, and player choice/perceptions.
Spoiler
I like this post. I like the analogy you've drawn as well, though I'm not sure I agree with it. I feel like the Ferrari is more like the 550dps 1 hander or 550dps bow that you get from a mirror, while the Station Wagon is the car you build completely from a Summit catalog right down to the mounts and T55 conversion kit, which would be the (as correctly pointed out falsely named) uniques. More so because many of the uniques are not that great on there own, but have ridiculous synergy when used with other uniques. In much the same way the 383 stroker kit you get for that vette engine does nothing without the 4 bolt main 350 block.
To someone with experience, both can be deemed cookie cutter, but the one is built and does give more satisfaction. Some of these uniques are closer to BiS (like soultaker) but is the extra aura from using Soultaker really worth the extra 250+ DPS you can conceivably get on a one hander? It all depends on how you build it. My "Main" in domination (though not first) is a facebreaker. While several of the slots then have BiS items that go in them, it actually requires far more careful selection around rings and amulet than my rare equipped double striker.
Part of this is that those of us who played a year in Open Beta saw changes that we feel are not in the best interest of the game from beta to release, which saw far bigger changes than all the changes in Open Beta combined. All of these items existed in Open Beta (several in much stronger forms and are now legacy) and there wasn't really a problem with EVERYONE owning the same items in the last league.
You do reach a saturation point in the parent leagues because nothing disappears, but when they decided to make things legacy and in effect gave some people (myself included) literally hundreds of exalts of gear overnight by not wiping them, they showed their intentions with parent leagues. The temporary leagues were much more enjoyable in the last 4 month circle. That's simply fact for most people who really put a lot of time into both of them. The change being advocated by both the OP and myself, is a reversion back to the way things worked in the last league, because it was simply more enjoyable.
Races are another aspect of the game both OP and myself have expressed frustration with, and the playstyle in them is much closer to the kind of play you describe than I believe leagues should have. The problem with them, is that for the current block of around 30 races, there is no way an American who works normal hours can participate in a single one.
It's worth pointing out that obviously, I love this game. I've given it more money than I've ever given a video game before, and it's a FREE game. That said, there are changes that I feel are detrimental to it, and I'm going to point it out when I see that happen, and lobby for change.
Thank you for the well thought out and composed post. It is good to know that the two of us can have a discussion. I respectfully tip my hat to you.
At the same time, I am forced to point out the reality that the "issues" you continue to discuss in this thread are individual and subjective. YOU feel things are not the way that YOU want them to be. I don't have an issue with you wanting to advocate for changes that you would like to see. I do want you to be fully cognizant of the reality that those "issues" are still very much filtered through your subjective lens. Modify the filter and see a different picture.
Isn't it nice that we can agree to disagree and yet still share the same level of passion for the game? I would love to have an opportunity to have a verbal discussion with you on these topics, as my verbal rhetoric is even stronger than my text.
Oh no sorry, the reading comprehension part was for the guy who just went off mindlessly about d3 :P
You used logic and proposed solutions
With the addition of eternals ( a TERRIBLE addition might I add) endgame crafting is extremely viable, we have players using several hundred exalts crafting insane gear because the process has been streamlined beyond belief with eternals
Unless new base items and affixes are released (I'm sure they will be) the game will be flooded with near-perfect items
Take the 500+ pdps 1 hander or the 800+ 2 hander; these items are nearly perfect, they are only a few % away from being unbeatable in any way shape or form in the current game
Because of this, increasing drop rates of the highest currency only speeds up this problem
Player one has access to more currency so instead of flipping uniques he crafts a mirror worthy chest and sells it for 500 ex
Player two, even with his increased drop rate, still feels behind because he cant afford the chest with minimal effort
Don't even get me started on Eternal orbs... they need to be removed from the game, never to return.
Thank you for the well thought out and composed post. It is good to know that the two of us can have a discussion. I respectfully tip my hat to you.
At the same time, I am forced to point out the reality that the "issues" you continue to discuss in this thread are individual and subjective. YOU feel things are not the way that YOU want them to be. I don't have an issue with you wanting to advocate for changes that you would like to see. I do want you to be fully cognizant of the reality that those "issues" are still very much filtered through your subjective lens. Modify the filter and see a different picture.
Isn't it nice that we can agree to disagree and yet still share the same level of passion for the game? I would love to have an opportunity to have a verbal discussion with you on these topics, as my verbal rhetoric is even stronger than my text.
Yes, I am quite glad that we have reached a point of actual discussion, and I suppose we will have to agree to disagree. You are correct that this is my subjective point of view, but I do have the benefit of having put in an incredible amount of time both before and after the 1.0 patch. To my knowledge, you are a relatively fresh player who has only enjoyed the game as it is in its current iteration. If that is correct, I am curious as to why your viewpoint is so contrary to my own. If I understood where you are coming from, it might help me grasp as to why you don't want a change back to the way drops were pre release.
Anarchy/Onslaught T shirt
Domination/Nemesis T shirt
Tempest/War Bands T shirt
Thank you for the well thought out and composed post. It is good to know that the two of us can have a discussion. I respectfully tip my hat to you.
At the same time, I am forced to point out the reality that the "issues" you continue to discuss in this thread are individual and subjective. YOU feel things are not the way that YOU want them to be. I don't have an issue with you wanting to advocate for changes that you would like to see. I do want you to be fully cognizant of the reality that those "issues" are still very much filtered through your subjective lens. Modify the filter and see a different picture.
Isn't it nice that we can agree to disagree and yet still share the same level of passion for the game? I would love to have an opportunity to have a verbal discussion with you on these topics, as my verbal rhetoric is even stronger than my text.
Yes, I am quite glad that we have reached a point of actual discussion, and I suppose we will have to agree to disagree. You are correct that this is my subjective point of view, but I do have the benefit of having put in an incredible amount of time both before and after the 1.0 patch. To my knowledge, you are a relatively fresh player who has only enjoyed the game as it is in its current iteration. If that is correct, I am curious as to why your viewpoint is so contrary to my own. If I understood where you are coming from, it might help me grasp as to why you don't want a change back to the way drops were pre release.
I'm a hardcore hardass. That's pretty much it. I play games to play them, the only reward I need is the enjoyment of the game. When I stop having fun then I stop playing that particular game (no, I don't "walk out" halfway through a chess game because I am losing, while losing may not be "fun" it is part of most games and one that you accept when you sit down to play).
I hold people accountable for their decisions, and point out their subjectivity. Fathering two sons will do that to you...
Honestly, the game provides me all that I need to gain vast amounts of enjoyment out of it as long as I maintain what I consider to be reasonable expectations in regards to it. From my own subjective viewpoint, I see some of your expectations as not being reasonable. I am also willing to agree that the two of us have, potentially, vastly differing opinions on the subjective definitions of "fun", "challenge", "reward", "progress", and "achievement"; and there is nothing wrong with that.
Fair enough. I appreciate the response. Before voltaxic was the item that everyone wanted, it was Shavronnes Wrappings, mostly because Righteous Fire had different mechanics pre release. The item went for 30-50 exalts depending on sockets and links and league, it was the source of unbelievable QQ. No one could believe an item could be that expensive.
The legacy version of soultaker was going for around 20 exalts at the time. There would be two to three threads daily complaining about the items powers. Eventually QQ won in the end, and both the item and the mechanic were nerfed into the ground. That's why casters are very rare in the game, now. It managed to completely break a character I had roughly 2,000 hours in. Kaoms heart (the now legacy version with 1,000hp) was going for around 26 exalts at the time. Also nerfed. Meanwhile voltaxic (which has no fear of reflect and thus allows a complete crit build) was left off the block and promoted to God Tier status. This change both vexes and befuddles me because the whole reason for nerfing the other items was that devs felt no unique should be Best in Slot.
It's worth mentioning that Kaoms, Shavronnes, Soultaker can all drop anywhere that meets the itemlevel, and I am nowhere close to acquiring any of these. The difference is that when I get screwed over by map RNG yet again, and am dropped down to running maps that give me less than 0.5% experience per run, there is a CHANCE that one of these can drop, so it makes grinding and praying for a map drop tolerable. This simply adds another layer of RNG and calls it difficulty, and I don't believe in that sort of thing. Difficulty can be added without tiering things away behind layers of RNG.
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Tempest/War Bands T shirt
