Really?? This is a problem....

Actually its quite possible to play solo and not trade at all.

It will take more time, but that's not the same as being impossible.

Most of my characters have never run an instance in a party. Most of the times I've tried I felt I was better off running solo.

I would guess I've made around a dozen or so trades since release. Three or four were fairly common gems I didn't happen to have at the time, a couple for gear, and the rest were to trade lower currency up to exalts.

Obviously I could have waited until I found the gems or got them from a quest. I could have made do with the gear I had until I eventually found or crafted better, and thus far the exalts I traded for haven't done me much good anyway.

I'm not the highest ranking player, or the best, or the richest, but since I only play after work during the week and a fair amount more on the weekends I wouldn't expect to be.


The games 'economy' has little or no effect on me. I am not unique, many many other people play the same way. Inflate, deflate, destroy, improve, we don't care.

It does however annoy me when people complain about how they can't play the game reasonably without trading or being in a party. You can, I do, others do.

You don't have to be great, you don't have to have constant wonderful drops, and you don't have to play huge amounts of time. You just have to be patient and have reasonable expectations.

"

AlteraxPoe wrote:

Actually its quite possible to play solo and not trade at all.

It will take more time, but that's not the same as being impossible.

Most of my characters have never run an instance in a party. Most of the times I've tried I felt I was better off running solo.

I would guess I've made around a dozen or so trades since release. Three or four were fairly common gems I didn't happen to have at the time, a couple for gear, and the rest were to trade lower currency up to exalts.

Obviously I could have waited until I found the gems or got them from a quest. I could have made do with the gear I had until I eventually found or crafted better, and thus far the exalts I traded for haven't done me much good anyway.

I'm not the highest ranking player, or the best, or the richest, but since I only play after work during the week and a fair amount more on the weekends I wouldn't expect to be.


The games 'economy' has little or no effect on me. I am not unique, many many other people play the same way. Inflate, deflate, destroy, improve, we don't care.

It does however annoy me when people complain about how they can't play the game reasonably without trading or being in a party. You can, I do, others do.

You don't have to be great, you don't have to have constant wonderful drops, and you don't have to play huge amounts of time. You just have to be patient and have reasonable expectations.

+1

But what you say is also the problem. If you play this game just to relax a little after work and otherwise don't really care much about it, this is fine.
But if you put some real time and dedication into it, and are willing to brood over optimizing builds and gear, you can easily get to the point where you get the feeling that the game just doesn't deliver in the same way you do.

As a self-found solo player sooner or later you have seen it all. You know that there are a lot of other builds and interesting gear out there but there is just no way to get there. You are stuck to some mediocre dps and some run-of-the-mill build for a very, very long time.

And it's just wrong to say that people want BiS gear within a week or whatever. But people (like me) can play for months and all the significant changes they can see are in the number of alterations or fusings and chaos.

I see nothing wrong with promoting a different approach from GGG. I don't think GGG will go bankrupt if they keep this up, no way in hell, but I think with some changes to how items drop (among other things) they could have a truly great game at hand while at the moment it's only 'good'.

"

Jojas wrote:

"

AlteraxPoe wrote:

Actually its quite possible to play solo and not trade at all.

It will take more time, but that's not the same as being impossible.

Most of my characters have never run an instance in a party. Most of the times I've tried I felt I was better off running solo.

I would guess I've made around a dozen or so trades since release. Three or four were fairly common gems I didn't happen to have at the time, a couple for gear, and the rest were to trade lower currency up to exalts.

Obviously I could have waited until I found the gems or got them from a quest. I could have made do with the gear I had until I eventually found or crafted better, and thus far the exalts I traded for haven't done me much good anyway.

I'm not the highest ranking player, or the best, or the richest, but since I only play after work during the week and a fair amount more on the weekends I wouldn't expect to be.


The games 'economy' has little or no effect on me. I am not unique, many many other people play the same way. Inflate, deflate, destroy, improve, we don't care.

It does however annoy me when people complain about how they can't play the game reasonably without trading or being in a party. You can, I do, others do.

You don't have to be great, you don't have to have constant wonderful drops, and you don't have to play huge amounts of time. You just have to be patient and have reasonable expectations.

+1

But what you say is also the problem. If you play this game just to relax a little after work and otherwise don't really care much about it, this is fine.
But if you put some real time and dedication into it, and are willing to brood over optimizing builds and gear, you can easily get to the point where you get the feeling that the game just doesn't deliver in the same way you do.

As a self-found solo player sooner or later you have seen it all. You know that there are a lot of other builds and interesting gear out there but there is just no way to get there. You are stuck to some mediocre dps and some run-of-the-mill build for a very, very long time.

And it's just wrong to say that people want BiS gear within a week or whatever. But people (like me) can play for months and all the significant changes they can see are in the number of alterations or fusings and chaos.

I see nothing wrong with promoting a different approach from GGG. I don't think GGG will go bankrupt if they keep this up, no way in hell, but I think with some changes to how items drop (among other things) they could have a truly great game at hand while at the moment it's only 'good'.

Exactly. For instance, it feels pointless to farm for a certain item if you want to try out good uniques that truely change builds or to actually farm for upgrades at some point. The chances you will ever find an upgrade above mediocrity are so incredibly slim you might aswell not bother. If you want to try out that other build or those better items, you are forced to just farm for ages and trade with other people for it. I guess this time-gating keeps some people playing, but at some point it just feels like I spend a lot of time peddling in place. I know this game is it's own game, but just for comparison, in d2 I actually farmed all the endgame sets for my characters, no way in hell is that ever going to happen in this game.

Good to know that I'm not the only one with this perception. I proposed some changes which could help the situation. Looks like people like us who are being called "whiners" are the ones being the most constructive here, while I'm getting a lot of aggressive vibes from people who think the looting system in the game is fine.I respect their opinion and realise my opinion is just that, an opinion.

"

Jojas wrote:

[

As a self-found solo player sooner or later you have seen it all. You know that there are a lot of other builds and interesting gear out there but there is just no way to get there. You are stuck to some mediocre dps and some run-of-the-mill build for a very, very long time.

And it's just wrong to say that people want BiS gear within a week or whatever. But people (like me) can play for months and all the significant changes they can see are in the number of alterations or fusings and chaos.

I see nothing wrong with promoting a different approach from GGG. I don't think GGG will go bankrupt if they keep this up, no way in hell, but I think with some changes to how items drop (among other things) they could have a truly great game at hand while at the moment it's only 'good'.

Oh, sooo true. Just one of the reasons i no longer play. As in d3, it seems reading forums is much more intersting.

"

reboticon wrote:

"

Sinnesteuer wrote:

Check Reboticon's posts in this thread, they seem to indicate that he believes this to be the only instance in the league. At least, that is the only way I can interpret his posts.

Regardless, that an exceptionally rare and powerful item would trade for an obscene amount is hardly a surprise. That so many players seem to be of the opinion that they cannot enjoy the game without facerolling it using cookie-cutter unique-enabled builds is hardly a surprise either.

Too much wanting to be at the destination, not enough enjoyment of the journey.

Please quote where I inferred this. I said that was the only way someone could GET one, not that only one exists.

I hate having to go here, but people with your experience force it. Look at your characters. Look at my characters. Enjoyment from the journey? Yes. I enjoyed it the first twenty times or so. I own these items in standard ALREADY. 6L occultist in hardcore as well that I quit chancing/scouring after change to shavs. Please explain to me the exact level of commitment you feel one should have to be able to get an item such as this. Then notice that every item up for discussion is on the challenges for this league. Clearly, they intend for at least ONE PERSON to obtain ALL OF THEM. With that in mind, is it unreasonable for a person who plays a lot during one league to obtain ONE of them? I would say, No.

"

Peace_Frog wrote:

But if you really hate trading for gear, suggest a fix. I've yet to hear anyone complaining about trading suggest something different. And don't say Auction House. It didn't work for D3, it's not going to work for PoE.

While we haven't seen it yet in -practice-, the theory behind smart drops in RoS is certainly sound.

Again.... +1

"

drewiey wrote:

My friend always does self found btw on every 4month league. At the end of every league he's pretty rich. He's always had at least 60 exalts.

Sorry man, but he's lying to you..

"

GreenGuy wrote:

85 exalts really isn't much currency. I had that much within the first two weeks of Domination.

This guy.... At least your rich because you sure don't know comprehension, or you just chose not to read any of the post.. AGAIN, we are not saying 85 exalts is a lot. We are saying that there is only 1 for trade on the indexer. C'mon man!

"

Knightmare101 wrote:

"

GreenGuy wrote:

85 exalts really isn't much currency. I had that much within the first two weeks of Domination.

This guy.... At least your rich because you sure don't know comprehension, or you just chose not to read any of the post.. AGAIN, we are not saying 85 exalts is a lot. We are saying that there is only 1 for trade on the indexer. C'mon man!

That's the KingCurrency guy who spends all day in trade ripping noobs on currency exchange. That he is rich is not surprising. It clearly works for him, so more power to him, but to me it sounds like an absolutely awful way to play a 'game' and brings it back once again to "Path of Economics: Wall Street Simulator."


I really don't know how this thread got so off topic. It's like people want to come in here and defend rates and say

" OMGZ YOU CAN PLAY THE GAME WITH CURRENT RATES"

when not one person has said that you can't. The statement being made is that after you put in hundreds and thousands of hours and do not get drops, or the league does not get drops, the fun in the game dramatically decreases. Very few of the people who disagree with that statement, have actually bothered putting in hundreds or thousands of hours.

I ran a couple 75 Necropolis, a couple of 76 precincts, a couple 74 mazes, 3 75 Plateaus, and an underground river last night. One of the precincts had 144q with tempchains and it took f o r e v e r to full clear. Culled the bosses with 45/250, which - imo - is fairly high in a league that does not have quantity gems and with a melee. I got Two Broadstroke quivers, a silverbranch, and a foxshade wild leather. Yay.

The 144q precinct did drop a 77 shrine, so that was nice, at least. So, again, for those who bother to read, the problem is not that the game is difficult, or I needz these items to survive, the problem is the game becomes stale collecting 11 stash tabs of the same 9 uniques over and over and over. It gets to the point where I think, well maybe it is time to try a new game. For a game with ambitions of a 10 year shelf life, that is probably not the feeling they are trying to inspire..

Ok!

I see many players in here saying that "upping drop rates wouldn't change a thing". That's just not true AT ALL! Yes, it would simply make an item go from 10ex to 20ex when YOU TRADE. But upping drop rates will make people able to craft - so they don't have to trade.

As of now, PoE is rewarding IF you trade. IMO an ARPG should be about grinding, not trading.

Is there not, possibly, another issue at hand here?

I propose that the issue is the over-inflated value that players have assigned to "unique" items due to the typical properties of said items in a number of games. The term "unique" as applied to these items is 100% oxymoronic. Once you have even two instances of said item in a league it is, by definition, no longer "unique". I blame Blizzard for pushing this oxymoronic thought onto players, and then blame players for buying into it as fully as they have.

Now, don't get me wrong, I understand why said "unique" items are desirable. They have, for the most part, static mod sets that only vary in numerical values between instances of the item(s). This allows players to, with minimal thought and effort, work those items in such a way that they might more easily access certain builds and play styles. And, while there is nothing wrong with that, it can, ultimately, lead to stagnation in perceived build viability, reducing "what is being played" to a handful of cookie-cutter alternatives.

IMO, far too many gamers are willing to accept being pigeon-holed into gear/skill/build combinations because it is the path of least resistance to viability. Many MMO's and other games promote this by having BiS "unique/legendary" items that are custom-tailored to specific build types. Gamers have become accustomed to "paint by numbers" character building/skill choice/gearing, regardless of the enjoyment factor.

Then, along comes a game like PoE. A game that offers the player both an opportunity to "unlock" builds with certain uniques, and then, through passive choices, skill gem and support usages, and other gearing options, turn those builds into something far more powerful. I am willing to bet that for every build that "requires" a unique to be "viable" there are options for the player to replicate said build without the unique. I am willing to admit that accomplishing this may be much harder without the unique, but that does not mean it cannot be done.

Basically, the issue is still with the players and their, potentially unrealistic from a game design standpoint, expectations.

Two cars at a stoplight, a Ferrari and a station wagon. Which one makes it to the next light first? On the surface, the Ferrari, until you look under the hood of the station wagon and see that the owner has taken the time and put in the work to nitro-charge the over-bore, turbo-boosted Corvette engine pulled from a junked '77 Stingray and paired it with the perfect transmission. Now, which owner has more satisfaction when they get to that light? Which one is able to more fully appreciate their accomplishment?

These issues have less to do with actual, in-game realities than they do with play styles, expectations, and player choice/perceptions.