[Poll] Self Found League - SFL /FINISHED

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iamstryker wrote:

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zachatta wrote:

Honestly I am probably the most self found in this thread. I traded for a crappy 5 link so far in nemesis. I also plah solo.

Regardless, the self found option is available, people just don't want to do it. They want instant gratification through improved drops.

Just play the game.

Every trade you have ever made was instant gratification. There's nothing instant about having to wait for RNG to give you everything you need.

The drop rate you guys are picturing must be cartoonishly absurd.

Then if you dont want improved drop rates that would actually be noticeable, we must be going back to pixel envy. Otherwise I have no idea why you dont just play self found now. Does it upset you that some people trade for upgrades? How does that effect your experience, especially if you are playing self found anyways. Hc and SC league, you can take your time earning your drops until you get what you want.

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TreeOfDead wrote:

snip

This is not a thread for a casual league bro. I am completely against a casual league. The game is already very easy right now. GGG would never make an easier league. Please stop.

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zachatta wrote:

Then if you dont want improved drop rates that would actually be noticeable, we must be going back to pixel envy. Otherwise I have no idea why you dont just play self found now. Does it upset you that some people trade for upgrades? How does that effect your experience, especially if you are playing self found anyways. Hc and SC league, you can take your time earning your drops until you get what you want.

When did I say that I am playing self found now? The game is balanced for an economy, it would suck playing self found now.

Games with economies have to be balanced around said economy or else the game goes to shit.

Here's a simple demonstration of trading affecting game balance:

10 items drop for you:
5 are garbage;
1 is good for your life based melee character;
1 is good for a freeze pulsing alt;
3 are useless for all your characters but would be good for a facebreaker, sporker, or lowlife character.

In a trading league you trade those items you can't use for ones you can.

In SFL you vendor them and get a few alts and maybe an alch. Same time spent as the trader, but less than half as much useable loot.

The game designers have a set goal for how fast players should acquire items and wealth: too fast and players get bored sooner, too slow and they get frustrated and quit.

If you provide trading but don't balance around it then you get an excess of loot making it so traders have too much loot too fast and get bored. If you do balance around it then you have people who don't trade getting too few items and getting frustrated.

Whether you agree with either playstyle or not the fact is both exist and both want to have fun in this game but really co-existance under the same drop-rate is going to leave one or the other shafted.

There may be some outliers who don't get frustrated with self found in its current form or who wouldn't get bored with higher drop rates in standard, but don't let that fool you into thinking that both playstyles are currently balanced or ever could be with the same ruleset.

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iamstryker wrote:

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TreeOfDead wrote:

snip

This is not a thread for a casual league bro. I am completely against a casual league. The game is already very easy right now. GGG would never make an easier league. Please stop.

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zachatta wrote:

Then if you dont want improved drop rates that would actually be noticeable, we must be going back to pixel envy. Otherwise I have no idea why you dont just play self found now. Does it upset you that some people trade for upgrades? How does that effect your experience, especially if you are playing self found anyways. Hc and SC league, you can take your time earning your drops until you get what you want.

When did I say that I am playing self found now? The game is balanced for an economy, it would suck playing self found now.

Lol, I guess someone really does want these 'cartoonish' drop rates.

Also if you play self found, or mostly solo you are oblivious to the idea that the game is balanced around an economy.

Why don't you actually try playing self found first before you demand GGG change their game vision.

You have until the servers shut down.

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zachatta wrote:

Honestly I am probably the most self found in this thread. I traded for a crappy 5 link so far in nemesis. I also plah solo.

I dont buy gear (tho I sell it occasionally) & play solo too. If you pick just certain builds you can progress without getting stuck till the endgame.

But how many times have you crafted in this game, as opposed to searching for upgrades in trade? I mean real crafting with tons of fuses, regals, exalts, fooken eternals... not just yolo alcing & 4links. With the exception of Descent champions, I havent yet used an exalt on a piece of gear, despite 1000+ hours of gameplay, because I have too little of them to realistically craft anything. Not to talk about a 6L...

A SLF (as I see it) would make crafting more affordable for everybody and progression through crafting easier. But it would be still harder than a trading league.

So, no, SFL people dont want the game easier, we want just to be able to realistically (in a realistic timeframe) experience the whole game, crafting included, without the need to trade.

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silvershadows wrote:

Whether you agree with either playstyle or not the fact is both exist and both want to have fun in this game but really co-existance under the same drop-rate is going to leave one or the other shafted.

Thats why GGG invented this wonderfull thing called leagues, with different rulesets. It would be stupid of them not to take advantage of league system, and (try to) appease everybody.

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morbo wrote:

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zachatta wrote:

Honestly I am probably the most self found in this thread. I traded for a crappy 5 link so far in nemesis. I also plah solo.

I dont buy gear (tho I sell it occasionally) & play solo too. If you pick just certain builds you can progress without getting stuck till the endgame.

But how many times have you crafted in this game, as opposed to searching for upgrades in trade? I mean real crafting with tons of fuses, regals, exalts, fooken eternals... not just yolo alcing & 4links. With the exception of Descent champions, I havent yet used an exalt on a piece of gear, despite 1000+ hours of gameplay, because I have too little of them to realistically craft anything. Not to talk about a 6L...

A SLF (as I see it) would make crafting more affordable for everybody and progression through crafting easier. But it would be still harder than a trading league.

So, no, SFL people dont want the game easier, we want just to be able to realistically (in a realistic timeframe) experience the whole game, crafting included, without the need to trade.

Crafting is designed to be a currency sink. It is working as intended. Why would GGG in a ARPG where you find loot, design crafting to be more successful then trading or grinding?

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zachatta wrote:

Honestly I am probably the most self found in this thread. I traded for a crappy 5 link so far in nemesis. I also plah solo.

Nope. Zero trades right here. Not a single one.

We are well aware the game is balanced around the economy (although your allies in this thread argue differently.) Personally, I think it's all about e-peen. People go into hardcore leagues and right away are trading for uniques that takes us ages to find self-found, so they start realizing they're really doing a pay-to-win scenario with in-game currency. SFL would be the only thing more "rawr hardcore" and they know they couldn't hack it.

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Crafting is designed to be a currency sink. It is working as intended. Why would GGG in a ARPG where you find loot, design crafting to be more successful then trading or grinding?

You hit the nail on the head. A lot of us SFL wonder the exact same thing. Just eliminate crafting. Change the orbs into some kind of in game monetary amount. At least that's truthful.

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bluefalcon74 wrote:

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zachatta wrote:

Honestly I am probably the most self found in this thread. I traded for a crappy 5 link so far in nemesis. I also plah solo.

Nope. Zero trades right here. Not a single one.

We are well aware the game is balanced around the economy (although your allies in this thread argue differently.) Personally, I think it's all about e-peen. People go into hardcore leagues and right away are trading for uniques that takes us ages to find self-found, so they start realizing they're really doing a pay-to-win scenario with in-game currency. SFL would be the only thing more "rawr hardcore" and they know they couldn't hack it.

Well sir, no offense, but your post reeks of pixel envy. However kudos to you, I enjoy trying to find my upgrades as well.

I don't even know what you're trying to suggest with "pixel envy." You're talking about your monitor?