As I said, there needs to be balance between time invested in farming and reward.
I am not sure what you are confused about. Some people dont like to trade, but if the game is balanced around trading it means they will need to invest a lot more time in farming. If the game is not balanced around trade it would mean there will need to be less time invested in farming. Do you understand that the game and its drop rates are balanced around trading? Do you understand what does it mean if you dont want to trade, in a game that is balanced around it?
If you increase drop rates, the upgrades will come faster, both for end game and before it. Why would you need to farm more for end game? It would need less compared to how it is now. It will actually mean time invested in farming will give you more rewards. It also means you can not speed it up with trading.
People who dont like to farm in this amount for a lot of hours to get a upgrade already left the game, not people that dont like to farm. Its all about balance, and if you do not trade, the game is not balanced good.
I mean, I agree that it would be awesome if a game were set up this way. But what you are asking for is a linear gear scale. The only game that I've seen do that that was Torchlight 1 and that system just re-used the same mobs and items... I have no idea how a company would be able to create enough content to have a linear gear scale...
That's why it gets more difficult to farm the longer you play. Companies cannot create enough content for an 'unlimited' game... I'm not even sure if I'd want them to.
Ok, i think i understand you and what you are saying. I am not asking for linear drop rates. The self found league is not about linear drop rates I am asking for drop rates that are not balanced around trade, but not linear ones. In end game you will need to farm more than compared to beginning in self found league, but the progression would be balanced more around you and less around economy as you would not be able to trade. If you read my post up, if you can not trade at all in a league, it means you will not need to balance the game around economy and trading.
That means the game would need to be balanced around you as the center of the game. Progression doesn't need to be linear, but it needs to be rebalanced and take in account that the only way to get items is from playing the game and crafting, and not from trading. That will logically mean the drop rates for crafting and items should be increased and balanced better.
Last edited by Ragnar119#4963 on Dec 3, 2013, 10:00:22 AM
Farming definitely isn't why I stick around. Its to make my builds. Farming might be fun in a self found league but its definitely not right now.
How do you get the gear you need for your builds?
The vast majority of gear I use for my builds is from trading. I don't get a lot of enjoyment from farming because orbs are too rare and common uniques are found constantly in maps. Right now I play the game to enjoy killing the monsters with my builds and lvling them up. If I didn't enjoy that then I am sure I would have left by now.
Ok, i think i understand you and what you are saying. I am not asking for linear drop rates. The self found league is not about linear drop rates I am asking for drop rates that are not balanced around trade, but not linear ones. In end game you will need to farm more than compared to beginning in self found league, but the progression would be balanced more around you and less around economy as you would not be able to trade. If you read my post up, if you can not trade at all in a league, it means you will not need to balance the game around economy and trading.
That means the game would need to be balanced around you as the center of the game. Progression doesn't need to be linear, but it needs to be rebalanced and take in account that the only way to get items is from playing the game and crafting, and not from trading. That will logically mean the drop rates for crafting and items should be increased and balanced better.
I don't really think the game is balanced around trading...
I can get to maps with pretty much any build. I think some tweaking of drops at the map level or in Merc Act 3 would be great. But heck... I want that in the leagues right now...
If they fix that would you guys still want a self-found league? Maybe for crafting purposes? Or do we just really want the drop rates tweaked some late game?
Ok, i think i understand you and what you are saying. I am not asking for linear drop rates. The self found league is not about linear drop rates I am asking for drop rates that are not balanced around trade, but not linear ones. In end game you will need to farm more than compared to beginning in self found league, but the progression would be balanced more around you and less around economy as you would not be able to trade. If you read my post up, if you can not trade at all in a league, it means you will not need to balance the game around economy and trading.
That means the game would need to be balanced around you as the center of the game. Progression doesn't need to be linear, but it needs to be rebalanced and take in account that the only way to get items is from playing the game and crafting, and not from trading. That will logically mean the drop rates for crafting and items should be increased and balanced better.
I don't really think the game is balanced around trading...
I can get to maps with pretty much any build. I think some tweaking of drops at the map level or in Merc Act 3 would be great. But heck... I want that in the leagues right now...
If they fix that would you guys still want a self-found league? Maybe for crafting purposes? Or do we just really want the drop rates tweaked some late game?
Normally the game is balanced around trading. I mean GGG said it, people that play it see it. You can get to maps without trading, but you will need to farm a lot more, a lot more compared to any other arpg.
In every game out there you can play without trading, korean mmos you can also play without paying $$$ for boost, items and other crap, but you will need to grind and farm for ton of time. The question is not can you do it without trading, but is it balanced good if you do not want to trade, and well it is not.
The way maps and 'crafting' is done is because of the trade and economy. You will see a lot of strange mechanics because of economy. They are all there for one reason, to make a currency sink, so the economy can be stable as much as possible. Random crafting, the way maps work and how they drop, are all done because GGG want them to be huge currency sink.
I mean if they fix problems, people would not want a self found league, but the self found league is there so it does not affect the normal league and people that would not like the changes for whatever reason. If they implement better crafting, better drop rates to make the progression better and less grind oriented in some parts of the game, better map progression than you would see less people wanting this, but the problem is, you will never see that in normal leagues, as GGG want to have a working economy, and if they would improve all the things it would mean it will hurt the economy of the game. And some people like to have a economy, and that is ok, and that is why we suggest a new separated league
It's a funny thing when you think about it. If you want to have a working economy in a game like this, you can not make self found play balanced.
Normally the game is balanced around trading. I mean GGG said it, people that play it see it. You can get to maps without trading, but you will need to farm a lot more, a lot more compared to any other arpg.
In every game out there you can play without trading, korean mmos you can also play without paying $$$ for boost, items and other crap, but you will need to grind and farm for ton of time. The question is not can you do it without trading, but is it balanced good if you do not want to trade, and well it is not.
The way maps and 'crafting' is done is because of the trade and economy. You will see a lot of strange mechanics because of economy. They are all there for one reason, to make a currency sink, so the economy can be stable as much as possible. Random crafting, the way maps work and how they drop, are all done because GGG want them to be huge currency sink.
I mean if they fix problems, people would not want a self found league, but the self found league is there so it does not affect the normal league and people that would not like the changes for whatever reason. If they implement better crafting, better drop rates to make the progression better and less grind oriented in some parts of the game, better map progression than you would see less people wanting this, but the problem is, you will never see that in normal leagues, as GGG want to have a working economy, and if they would improve all the things it would mean it will hurt the economy of the game. And some people like to have a economy, and that is ok, and that is why we suggest a new separated league
It's a funny thing when you think about it. If you want to have a working economy in a game like this, you can not make self found play balanced.
So we need a self found league basically because of end-game maps? Let's say they took maps out of the game. Would that be fine? I personally think item-drop wise it would be. However, your points about the currency/crafting materials still stand...
I guess I just compare everything to Diablo 2... No one ever asked for a self found league because the had single player. But let's face it. You weren't ever getting any high runes from playing single player... So people hacked in order to experience the "full game".
Clearly in PoE we aren't meant to use or even drop all the currency... In a self found league how much would you want the rates improved? Would you want to find 4-5 exalts by level 70? I mean, there won't be any economy so how would you balance the currency or gear drop rates?
Many of you guys that want a SFL dont want a SFL, you want an easier casual RoS style league.
1) Please don't stereotype, if you think thats what someone is asking for then call them out on it directly so they can respond.
2) RoS isn't even out yet so what does that even mean?
1) I dont stereotype, if you read many of the posts here or in any other "we want a sfl" type posts, you'll find that for a lot of these guys, self found league comes with better drop rate (if not better everything else). Self found is supposed to be harder, not easier.
2) Well, there are already a lot of videos and streams about it, and even if it's still in beta, we can already say that in RoS you'll get shiny badass items in no time and plenty of HL gems. Oh yeah, and almost everything is account bound, yeah... But that's not the point of this thread, I shouldn't have mentioned RoS in the first place.
Many of you guys that want a SFL dont want a SFL, you want an easier casual RoS style league.
1) Please don't stereotype, if you think thats what someone is asking for then call them out on it directly so they can respond.
2) RoS isn't even out yet so what does that even mean?
1) I dont stereotype, if you read many of the posts here or in any other "we want a sfl" type posts, you'll find that for a lot of these guys, self found league comes with better drop rate (if not better everything else). Self found is supposed to be harder, not easier.
2) Well, there are already a lot of videos and streams about it, and even if it's still in beta, we can already say that in RoS you'll get shiny badass items in no time and plenty of HL gems. Oh yeah, and almost everything is account bound, yeah... But that's not the point of this thread, I shouldn't have mentioned RoS in the first place.
"an easier casual RoS style league" would be what it's considered, and that's fine. Call it the n00b league for all I care. If people can have fun that way, then what's the problem? Personally, I play the game self-found and I know that I've gotten further in the game than 99% of you without buying my way there.
2) Well, there are already a lot of videos and streams about it, and even if it's still in beta, we can already say that in RoS you'll get shiny badass items in no time and plenty of HL gems. Oh yeah, and almost everything is account bound, yeah... But that's not the point of this thread, I shouldn't have mentioned RoS in the first place.
The drop rate is increased during beta to speed up the testing process, just fyi. This was stated in a dev post, but I don't have the link.
The difference is that RoS is forcing self found on everyone forever. A self found league would be optional, temporary, and fun IMO. I started playing PoE b/c RoS is going to ruin D3 for me.
Aside from trading for the occasional regret because I'm impatient (and I did buy a portal gem once),
I am completely self found (and self built), and luckily I have found this combo:
Love me some facebreaker build.
Trading is just as bad as D3's AH IMO. Pretty easy when you just trade a couple orbs for gear. Try working up from scratch and finding that gear yourself instead.
You just have to be open to go with what you find, not build toward a specific build.
Now if only I could find a Bringer of Rain. Got a Night Bascient I've threw a few chances at. No luck yet.
Go Self Found!
Last edited by NightCicer#2430 on Dec 3, 2013, 12:27:39 PM
