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majesw wrote:
I'm pretty shocked that so many people want a self-found league...
It also seems that most people that want one have a different image in mind for what they want...
There are consequences to what a lot of you are suggesting. As a permanent league I think that any league with big increases to drops will hurt PoE in the long run. When people clear content too quickly they get bored and move on. The top players with nothing to trade, and nothing to show off will move on.
As a short term league it could work. But when that league ends two things will happen...
1. People will complain that their characters were deleted.
2. People will be shocked by the drop rates in the other leagues.
You've convinced me in this thread that there may be some value in a SFL league. But I suggest we take a look at RoS when it comes out and see what happens there. Blizzard is taking a multi-player experience and turning it into a solo game. If I were PoE I'd want to watch the results before attempting anything similar.
The thing is simple. If you compare PoE to any other arpg (like diablo 2, TQ, TL1, TL2, sacred 1,2, Loki) it has the worse of worse drop rates out there. The reason for it is as we all know economy and balance around trading.
You must understand that some people dont find any fun in trading, as same as people have fun in trading.
People here are voting to have a option in game that will be more fun for them. If for you its not fun to not have a working economy, than the league will not be for you, and you can play in other one as it is now.
The other problem you seem to miss is, people that are asking for this league will already stop playing the game much sooner than to farm for long time to get some item or upgrade. Need to farm for long time without a reword will not keep them playing it in the first place.
Grind in games like this need to have a good balance between time invested and reward, and you cannot have that balance if the game is balance around trading and a economy.
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Posted byRagnar119#4963on Dec 3, 2013, 8:21:12 AM
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Diablo 2 had items with similar drop rates to PoE. Runes were especially rare. The only reason why D2 items eventually became more common was that people were running bots farming bosses and pindle. I find it odd that trading is such a big dealbreaker to you, but you're not playing TL2, where if you ever feel like you need something, you can just mod it in.
Last edited by BGSacho#5858 on Dec 3, 2013, 8:34:23 AM
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Posted byBGSacho#5858on Dec 3, 2013, 8:33:29 AM
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Ragnar119 wrote:
The thing is simple. If you compare PoE to any other arpg (like diablo 2, TQ, TL1, TL2, sacred 1,2, Loki) it has the worse of worse drop rates out there. The reason for it is as we all know economy and balance around trading.
You must understand that some people dont find any fun in trading, as same as people have fun in trading.
People here are voting to have a option in game that will be more fun for them. If for you its not fun to not have a working economy, than the league will not be for you, and you can play in other one as it is now.
The other problem you seem to miss is, people that are asking for this league will already stop playing the game much sooner than to farm for long time to get some item or upgrade. Need to farm for long time without a reword will not keep them playing it in the first place.
Grind in games like this need to have a good balance between time invested and reward, and you cannot have that balance if the game is balance around trading and a economy.
I'm confused... You're saying that people don't want to farm a long time for an upgrade. But you don't want to trade? What other option is there to upgrade your gear? You either farm gear, farm crafting materials, or trade.
If you increase the drop rates, then upgrades will come very quickly, but then it will be even more difficult end-game to upgrade and that will require more farming... Every ARPG in existence eventually gets to a point where it takes forever to find an upgrade.
People who don't like to farm have already left this game.
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Posted bymajesw#7630on Dec 3, 2013, 8:46:37 AM
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Farming definitely isn't why I stick around. Its to make my builds. Farming might be fun in a self found league but its definitely not right now.
Standard Forever
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Posted byiamstryker#5952on Dec 3, 2013, 8:47:56 AM
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iamstryker wrote:
Farming definitely isn't why I stick around. Its to make my builds. Farming might be fun in a self found league but its definitely not right now.
How do you get the gear you need for your builds?
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Posted bymajesw#7630on Dec 3, 2013, 8:50:54 AM
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majesw wrote:
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morbo wrote:
So people play hack&slash ARPGs because they want to kill monsters and loot items, or because of an "economy"? I'm confused... If it's the latter, then Tycoon Manager Online, would be a better game for them.
Sure for the people who plan to play a game for maybe 40 hours. That's great. D3 on the console is fabulous for 40-60 hours. You kill stuff. You get shiny items. You progress.
When you're talking about designing a game for players who put tons of hours into it then this doesn't work. People no longer want to just kill monsters. They want to min/max characters and builds. This requires an economy.
Dude, stop. Plenty of people play this game solo for dozens/hundreds of hours. These are the people who would be interested in SFL. You're obviously not one of them, and you've made your point known, so now just move along. Don't think you've got your fingers on the pulse of every PoE player, because you certainly haven't. I've been told that my main interest in the game is the economy (by people like you), and it's 100% false.
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Posted bybluefalcon74#6991on Dec 3, 2013, 9:13:15 AM
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majesw wrote:
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Ragnar119 wrote:
The thing is simple. If you compare PoE to any other arpg (like diablo 2, TQ, TL1, TL2, sacred 1,2, Loki) it has the worse of worse drop rates out there. The reason for it is as we all know economy and balance around trading.
You must understand that some people dont find any fun in trading, as same as people have fun in trading.
People here are voting to have a option in game that will be more fun for them. If for you its not fun to not have a working economy, than the league will not be for you, and you can play in other one as it is now.
The other problem you seem to miss is, people that are asking for this league will already stop playing the game much sooner than to farm for long time to get some item or upgrade. Need to farm for long time without a reword will not keep them playing it in the first place.
Grind in games like this need to have a good balance between time invested and reward, and you cannot have that balance if the game is balance around trading and a economy.
I'm confused... You're saying that people don't want to farm a long time for an upgrade. But you don't want to trade? What other option is there to upgrade your gear? You either farm gear, farm crafting materials, or trade.
If you increase the drop rates, then upgrades will come very quickly, but then it will be even more difficult end-game to upgrade and that will require more farming... Every ARPG in existence eventually gets to a point where it takes forever to find an upgrade.
People who don't like to farm have already left this game.
As I said, there needs to be balance between time invested in farming and reward.
I am not sure what you are confused about. Some people dont like to trade, but if the game is balanced around trading it means they will need to invest a lot more time in farming. If the game is not balanced around trade it would mean there will need to be less time invested in farming. Do you understand that the game and its drop rates are balanced around trading? Do you understand what does it mean if you dont want to trade, in a game that is balanced around it?
If you increase drop rates, the upgrades will come faster, both for end game and before it. Why would you need to farm more for end game? It would need less compared to how it is now. It will actually mean time invested in farming will give you more rewards. It also means you can not speed it up with trading.
People who dont like to farm in this amount for a lot of hours to get a upgrade already left the game, not people that dont like to farm. Its all about balance, and if you do not trade, the game is not balanced good.
Last edited by Ragnar119#4963 on Dec 3, 2013, 9:20:06 AM
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Posted byRagnar119#4963on Dec 3, 2013, 9:15:51 AM
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Ragnar119 wrote:
As I said, there needs to be balance between time invested in farming and reward.
I am not sure what you are confused about. Some people dont like to trade, but if the game is balanced around trading it means they will need to invest a lot more time in farming. If the game is not balanced around trade it would mean there will need to be less time invested in farming. Do you understand that the game and its drop rates are balanced around trading? Do you understand what does it mean if you dont want to trade, in a game that is balanced around it?
If you increase drop rates, the upgrades will come faster, both for end game and before it. Why would you need to farm more for end game? It would need less compared to how it is now. It will actually mean time invested in farming will give you more rewards. It also means you can not speed it up with trading.
People who dont like to farm in this amount for a lot of hours to get a upgrade already left the game, not people that dont like to farm. Its all about balance, and if you do not trade, the game is not balanced good.
I mean, I agree that it would be awesome if a game were set up this way. But what you are asking for is a linear gear scale. The only game that I've seen do that that was Torchlight 1 and that system just re-used the same mobs and items... I have no idea how a company would be able to create enough content to have a linear gear scale...
That's why it gets more difficult to farm the longer you play. Companies cannot create enough content for an 'unlimited' game... I'm not even sure if I'd want them to.
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Posted bymajesw#7630on Dec 3, 2013, 9:37:23 AM
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bluefalcon74 wrote:
Dude, stop. Plenty of people play this game solo for dozens/hundreds of hours. These are the people who would be interested in SFL. You're obviously not one of them, and you've made your point known, so now just move along. Don't think you've got your fingers on the pulse of every PoE player, because you certainly haven't. I've been told that my main interest in the game is the economy (by people like you), and it's 100% false.
Meh. Read my other posts mate. SFL has problems, but I'm not saying don't ever do it. I've been partially convinced that it's a good idea.
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Posted bymajesw#7630on Dec 3, 2013, 9:46:43 AM
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A.
I can easily faceroll the game by trading up for gear but I find it takes away a lot of the reward of obtaining your own gear, be it by a lucky drop or by a lucky craft. Some of my most enjoyable moments were when an item I really needed dropped or I crafted an upgrade I really needed. However, this happens very rarely as I would normally just trade up. If anything, trading really breaks your character's linear progression in the game as you can often be at a gear check point and, after a few trades, "over-gear" very very easily. What was difficult for you a moment ago is now faceroll. In many ways, I feel like trading is "cheating" in this game. This coming from a guy who trades a lot (I don't do it because I like it, I do it because it's necessary to progress).
I don't think there's any need for a drop rate increase on items but an increase in drop rate on crafting orbs would be desirable, particularly as you are still subject to crafting RNG at this point. It would be great to use an eternal or exalt for its true purpose rather than hoard 10s or even 100s of them for future trades.
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Posted byjayteeez#5825on Dec 3, 2013, 9:49:33 AM
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