GGG: Your System encourages RMT and Botting.

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YeahPete wrote:

Also I don't get a lot of playtime in either. Achieving a godly build is not possible for us. And it really shouldn't be.

So youre basically saying this game is hardcore and that its a good thing not because of the skill and wit required but mainly because you have to sink in rediculous amounts of time to get to a proper level. I think this sucks, I understand why they do it but they really should make the slow, slooooow way up a bit more rewarding, buying 20 exalts online for thirty dollars will safe me literally more than a year and open up lots of possibilities completely absent for me now after allready putting 160 hours in. And thirty dollars is not muchconsiddering i spent double of that on stash upgrades and opticals here just to support a good cause.

And then if you finally have a build that can MF reasonably even for a beginner it gets nerfed!

Im NOT doing any RMT nor approve of it, I even detest it, but I understand very well why so many players feel driven into it.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Adult Language

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Kasparov13 wrote:

you have to sink in rediculous amounts of time to get to a proper level. I think this sucks, I understand why they do it but they really should make the slow, slooooow way up a bit more rewarding

This entire line of thinking is bullshit. If you dislike playing the game and are only willing to continue as long as the game shills out upgrades, then you're going to hit a point where the game no longer pays enough. When you're not playing for fun but for reward, you're prostituting yourself, and all you're doing here is bickering about your fee.

The solution is to make grinding itself fun; the closest GGG has come to this are some of the Nemesis mods, which can make grinding more varied. The amount you're rewarded has fuck all to do with it.

As long as we're working with sex analogies, the proper pace of progression is best described as "tantric," which gives maximum enjoyment for those who enjoy the act itself... and is torture for those who whore themselves.

The grind itself would be more bearable if there was actual markers of progress, e.g. goals were incrementally available. Say high level bosses dropped tokens and after a certain number of them you could craft an item that's at least of a certain quality. Or crafting was incremental and not completely RNG based.

The problem is the game requires you to 'prostitute' yourself repeatedly in the same way over and over. Most people get to a certain level basically autopilot farm certain zones in the hope of finding something decent. They basically become human bots. The grind would be a lot more bearable if the actual grinding was more fun and the progress was more incremental.

People saying that the amount of grind in PoE is ok, are most likely casuals that have never grinded the grind.

The relation between easing up grind, subsequently making RMT cheaper and hypothetically more used, is not linear. Players have different views on RMT and reasons for doing it and especially reasons for NOT doing it.

I personally have no moral qualms (oh, noes, RMT will ruin GGG and the economah!!) and would RMT the shyt out of this game if it wasnt for two things:

- RMT is cheating
- paying real cash for virtual in-game goods is absolutely retarded

Therefore I will never RMT, no matter how shitty on non-shitty the drops in this game are. Most players would not opt for RMT because of various other reasons (its a hassle, its illegal, its immoral, its risky, its too expensive...), but the common denominator for all players that could push them toward RMT is the amount of grind. Make the grind insufferable enough and you'll make players reconsider their qualms for not doing RMT.

Therefore imo, easing on the grind would not linearly translate to more people using RMT, even if it linearly translates to cheaper items on RMT sites. Because RMT stuff being 'expensive' is just one of the reasons why players don't RMT.

If you're talking about the "game being bearable" then the problem is a lack of enjoyment. [B]No amount of in-game reward, no matter how lavish, serves as a justification or bribe for unfun gameplay.[/b] So stop trying to ask for more reward, it solves nothing; if you don't think the game is fun, stop playing until things change and you'd find the game to be fun in-and-of-itself.

A loot finding game stops being fun when you don't find loot* - what a shocker!!

(*unless you multibox & play for 16 hrs/day)

but still, been grinding maps for the last two months and loot finding is the last thing that kept me going. Would like to complete the "kill all unique mobs" challenge, that is if I'll ever loot a Palace map -_- So again, lack of loot finding is still at my ass, no matter how I try to ignore it and find fun elsewhere.

Ill do the one week race (further showing that for me loot finding is not #1 reason to play) but then ill take a big brake from this game.

Focusing on the depth of end-game grind is the MMO approach, which keeps players on a single character and discourages trying out new builds. This works in an MMO, since end-game characters can trick around with dozens of skills on a monster-sized skillbar, and participate in social-oriented content like raids and large-scale PvP. Those games also utilize account-binding in order to keep the end-game out the hands of the economy.

An ARPG is a different beast, which requires a different approach. In order to keep the player trying out different skills, you can't just constantly increase the end-game grind threshold like MMO's do, since all you'll get is people using the same few skills even more instead of trying out other skills.

You have to keep re-rolling an enticing option.

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morbo wrote:

Therefore imo, easing on the grind would not linearly translate to more people using RMT, even if it linearly translates to cheaper items on RMT sites. Because RMT stuff being 'expensive' is just one of the reasons why players don't RMT.

I think RMT prices are very cheap actually already. For 30 bucks I can buy 20 exalts, ingame I would have to farm literally hundreds and hundreds of hours for that and as I said most players have no problem spending a multitude of thirty bucks on supporter packs, especcially older players with a job and money and less free time who don't want to grind the grind. I think by far the main reason for people to not resort to RMT is a moral one, because like me most players considder it cheating and not worth the risk and hassle.

For a botter the drop rates don't matter, he's botting so the only downside he has that his bot's farming speed decreases a bit, but since he has hundreds running around it doesn't matter much. If anything he'll be glad when drop rates go down because it means he can sell his stuff for more and interest in his wares goes up because the decicion 'cheating/staying true' gets easier for many players and the discomfort of the risk weigh up to the reward better.

I'm going to reiterate my core beliefs from my "Adult Language" post, sans the adult language.
1. The game is meant to be enjoyed for its own sake. If you enjoy slaying monsters in Path of Exile, you enjoy the game; in such a case, in-game reward is a bonus and area-unlocker.
2. If you dislike slaying monsters in Path of Exile, and you expect to be "paid" for your efforts, then you don't enjoy the game. If you continue to play anyway, even when there is no indication of a stop point where the nature of progression will fundamentally change, then you most likely have a gambling/gaming addiction, and should cease playing immediately. If you find you cannot stop, you should seek professional help. (The only rational exception to this I can think of are PvP players, who have to PvE to gear up, then can stop.)
3. Changing the rate of progression for the benefit of gambling/gaming addicts is absurd; you don't cater to people who shouldn't be playing your game.
4. The proper rate of progression, aimed at those who enjoy the game for its own sake, is as slow as possible while remaining statistically significant, to prolong the pleasure and add to single-character replay value.
5. If you dislike slaying monsters, I respect and value your feedback, but if you are going to QQ, pull your head out of your Skinner box and offer suggestions to make monster-slaying more satisfying in-and-of-itself. If combat isn't varied enough, ask for things to make combat more varied. If you think the game is too one-skill-spam, propose systems which encourage skill combinations. But realize that offering you a bigger bribe to play through content you don't enjoy will never make you actually enjoy it.
6. With the exception of PvP play, RMT is an indicator of severe gaming addiction. And it always serves as a funding mechanism for botters and other malicious community elements.
7. There are a lot of gambling/gaming addicts currently playing PoE, including a significant portion of the forum population, who need to follow the advice in point 2.

^ A bunch of bollocks. Most players dont fall in any of those 'categories', but:

- Like slaying monster in PoE, but feel they are not rewarded enough for their time

Being rewarded for your grind, so you can progress further / faster / better, is the whole f***in point of aRPGs. Else everyone would be just fine playing in normal Strand, doing Hillock runs "for it's own sake"...