A disturbing trend (Games are supposed to be hard)

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Charan wrote:

I always found those Disney platformers on SNES (Aladdin, Lion King, etc) really, really hard.

This seemed unusually cruel, since, well...it's Disney. :(

Aladdin. Lol. Forgot about that one. That game was definitely hard and fun.

Now Bayou Billy on the other hand........

I believe this game has the correct difficulty until the point where your gear kicks ass. Right now, I'm almost at that point. Once I get my amazing gear, its PvP time. Sure ill keep playing that toon for a lil while here and there, but once she's done, she's done. Once I reach this point, its time to try a new build and start the process over again.

Games should be hard. They should also be fun. I believe GGG has found a pretty damn good balance of the two. Is some tweaking needed? Sure.

Mainly on how low IIQ maps with good mods provide more maps than hard mod maps, but I'm assuming they'll get back to that after PvP is released. I'm sure they're quite busy atm

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Malice wrote:

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iamstryker wrote:

IMO the correct way to balance this is to make a game like POE and then provide additional and optional content to challenge the top players. But don't make it so everyone feels obligated to play this content to gear up. Just make it for the challenge.

I both agree and disagree with this to a certain extent.

The problem with additional, optional content in a game like this is that it's not optional. If it's there at the end and represents more content to do, then everyone will want to experience that content. You don't get to the second last level of a mario game and say "oh well, finished this game" and then not do the final level because it's optional.

That's not really accurate in this context though. Because
we aren't really talking about incredibly different content. We are talking about the same kind of content on a different difficulty.

@sweatypalm
Most people don't think like that. Once there is more in the game waiting for you then you want to experience it no matter how did devs call it. Extra content, bonus level, secret area, übermensch league... Or look at it from different point of view - what if they restricted the access to certain part of the game for the casual gamer population. Because that's exactly how would they feel if there was some content made only for the best of the best.

Edit: oops, not as always

I usually play on the hardest difficulty. That is why I like this game. I played a few weekends.

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wiggin wrote:

@sweatypalm
Most people don't think like that. Once there is more in the game waiting for you then you want to experience it no matter how did devs call it. Extra content, bonus level, secret area, übermensch league... Or look at it from different point of view - what if they restricted the access to certain part of the game for the casual gamer population. Because that's exactly how would they feel if there was some content made only for the best of the best.

Edit: oops, not as always

I'm pretty sure most people do think like that. Even when i was hardcore, i would be content with only going up to the second hardest difficulty and taking a break for a bit, reading up on some strats/ tutorials so i could maybe tackle the insane difficulty in a few weeks or months.

When i was casual i would be completely satisfied with clocking the game on the easiest difficulty. Most casuals are.

In fact to them the idea of playing the EXACT same content just on a higher difficulty would be boring.

It sounds like some people are saying if the higher difficulties are too hard for the casual player then they should be nerfed.....

Not everyone can play all content. Not all builds will be viable.

Another area to challenge the best players that A) isn't a quest, B) Does not provide loot that people cannot get elsewhere, C) is Super challenging, I don't really see this being something that a casual player would object to. They still finished the actual game, they still get access to the same loot, its just something to challenge the most experienced and highest char lvl players.

Someone brought up super mario. If super mario had an extra area that A) wasn't part of the main game, and B) Was incredibly challenging, I don't think I would have ever played it. I wouldn't have been interested.

I've only played the beta for about 25 hours, but I'm liking it a lot. Almost through the 2nd difficulty on a shadow toon...seems balanced--decided to do a bow shadow, cool so far.

There is a big difference between 'games should be hard--not everyone should be able to complete them' and 'jeez, this is BS....why should I keep playing?'....honestly, if you are making a commericial game, you have to at least realize that the latter view you don't want in your game.

D3 made myself and everyone I know feel like the latter (haven't played in 3 months--heard they nerfed the difficulty extremely)....because you were getting your ass handed to you and had to pay too much to repair....it's gameplay of combat was good, but everything else was crap....good job so far GGG, I don't think it's too difficult so far, but it isn't easy either.

I must 'think' about my passives and what gems to use in what limited slots I have, and many other things to keep someone like myself entertained with many deep thoughts, of course, in between, zombie like left clicking on my mouse repeatedly.

Games must be challenging and fun so a gamer must enjoy them and not get bored from the same and the same things

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sweatypalm wrote:

I'm pretty sure most people do think like that. Even when i was hardcore, i would be content with only going up to the second hardest difficulty and taking a break for a bit, reading up on some strats/ tutorials so i could maybe tackle the insane difficulty in a few weeks or months.

When i was casual i would be completely satisfied with clocking the game on the easiest difficulty. Most casuals are.

In fact to them the idea of playing the EXACT same content just on a higher difficulty would be boring.

Well, as long as there is something extra you get for playing the higher difficulty, such as betetr gear, higher drop rate, different monsters to fight... then it is not just harder difficulty but whole new content and what I wrote about it is true for most people (if not all). But if the difficulty just means that you receive twice as much damage and deal less damage to monsters, without getting anything in return, then you are right.

For example in Skyrim when you play on higher difficulty it is just higer difficulty and you don't get anything for it but more challenging experience. However it is singleplayer game and it works just fine there. In PoE you have to reward people for doing harder things because it is a multiplayer game with certain kind of competition.

To quote someone that was on the TGS Podcast once(can't quite remember his name), "People like what they like and don't what they don't."

Games aren't necessarily supposed to be "hard", but more importantly fun. Sure, there does need to be some since of difficulty in it, but there are people out there who wish to not really "try hard" at a game but sit back, relax, and have an easy fun time. Some people like extremely difficult games. Some don't. I for one, like difficulty as long as it isn't "too" hard. ;)