Official Blender Post! Lets theory craft for 1.2! 123k Cleave DPS!

My gear in the signature to show that I've soloed all end-game maps to say this.

While Mid-Game I suggest Dual Strike over Cyclone, at End-Game(Lv72+ Map) I suggest you change it to Cyclone.

My cyclone dps are ~ 13 k with haste and grace, and i carry pretty shitty dps gear.
U will never get close to the same defenses u get with a shield, never just not possible.

I really planned my 44 point respect and i didnt do it cuz i wanted to waste like 2 ex on regrets, but because i just saw no other way to kill the hardest shit and facetank everything. I can easily facetank residence dominus all day with a saffels and mb loose 3 k of my 6 k hp (something u will never reach with the original build) in a touch of god. Something u rly dont need to face tank, was more for the lols.

I have 18 k armor with grace up. Went up by like 11k from the previous build. Currently wearing a Lioneyes.

Also u can allow yourself to go for items like meginords cuz ure just not so screwed with your resistances. What pretty much makes the dmg difference even smaller.

The Blender build just works fine, dont get me wrong, but if u want to do 75+ maps with all the good shit like monster dmg + vulnerability + haste or -max or whatever. It wont let you do that safely.

214% Life just isnt enough, especically since, and thats the MAIN reason why i went for a shield, almost ONLY spell dmg can kill you anyways. I mean even with the original build u have like 75 % blind 48 % block and some armor ~8k i guess with decent gear. But the saffels allows u just to do any spell based boss, like crematorium, or residence, or (bit too easy) temple, or shrine.

U might also do it with the blender build, but i did that and i can tell u if u cyclone and u rly HAVE to facetank a crematorium boss, even without - max res and 77% fire res, ull die faster than u can click your instant potions if you have bad luck.

Also iam playing on Domination right now and my gear is worth mb 50 ex (like 35 Soultaker + 10 Bringer rest is pretty much shit). Dmg just isnt anything, i kill packs in a 77 maps with 1 mb cyclones so i dont rly care if i have 5 k more cyclone dps as long as i can do rly anything with almost any mods there are.

PS : you just cant use such a stupid comparison, sry but if u specced like 20 billion dual wield nodes what do u think will happen if u equip a shield xD

PPS : Just looked at your gear, you have like 2 mirrored items( one of them is a 550 dps 1h sword, rofl) and a legacy soultaker and u dont even use a bringer anymore. I mean gz that u can solo every map with that kinda gear ... But we rly must stay realistic. Almost no1 has a Soultaker and a Bringer and for normal ppl, especically those who play Domination, thats already almost impossible to get. Rly i dont even get why u post in this thread. I can solo everything with gear worth like 1k exalts, doesnt matter what ability u use. And still u will die vs a temple piety with -max res and additional projectiles.

Didn't realize you're talking to me til I read the PPS. Lol.

Honestly I'm not sure myself what you tried to say(read through 3 times already). It looks like you're talking about Shield vs Dual Wielding and my gear(Or something like that).

I didn't say "Look at my gear, that's normal everyone can easily get it" or "Hey, you should just go Dual wielding". And I already pointed out that "Spell damage is the only prob end-game".

First I didn't suggest or say anything about grabbing something related to my gear.

"

Rozerozz wrote:

My gear in the signature to show that I've soloed all end-game maps to say this.

All I said is I'm experienced enough to give info about "Cyclone or Dual Strike". Tbh I didn't say anything about grabbing good gears, you're just the one mentioned it.

And for the shield part.

"

Rozerozz wrote:

Shield is great. Still you can gain max damage reduction & resist even with Dual Wielding.

Anyway I have to say that the only thing that can actually melt you down end-game is Spell Damage. So it may be good if you decided to ditch your Dps for Saffell's Frame Branded Kite Shield(5% Max Resist & spell-block).

Comparing Dual Wielding and Saffell's Frame on my char. I prefer 10k more damage(cyclone dps in town).

I said Shield Is Great.
I said For My Char I Prefer Dual Wielding.

"

aGnosticc wrote:

PS : you just cant use such a stupid comparison, sry but if u specced like 20 billion dual wield nodes what do u think will happen if u equip a shield xD

PPS : Just looked at your gear..

What stupid comparison? I compare Cyclone vs Dual Strike, not Shield vs Dual Wielding (again I said shield is great btw).

And not to mention that I didn't say anything about x2p's build because if you're not dumb, you should know that I use entirely different build to run 3 aura.

Edited: Plus you didn't even say anything about Dual Strike, so I think may be you didn't even read through my post before posting dumb comment.

"

Iyacthu wrote:

Edit : Cleave with two one handed weapons have a 84% (70*0.6*2) damage effectiveness, which is higher than Cyclone. It has a way larger AoE aswell.
At 20% Quality for both, ignoring other AoE modifiers, Cleave has +10% IAS and 20 Range, while Cyclone has +38% IAS and at best (7+2)*1.2 Range (rounded to either 10 or 11, i don't know), the 1.2 modifier being additive with other AoE modifiers.
All in all, for dual wielding, you are trading 28% IAS (which is sank among other modifiers, which should be as high as +70% excluding the skill IAS modifier meaning that it's actually more like 15/20% DPS increase at best) and movement for +4% Damage Effectiveness and a Range twice as high.

Apologizies for my poor English by the way.

Tl;dr : For dual wielding, there are way better options than Cyclone, be it Cleave or Dual Strike + Melee Splash (which should actually yield lower effective DPS than Cleave). For Cyclone, you're gaining way more by using a shield in your offhand than an other one handed weapon.

DW Cleave *0,84 | +76% phy | +10% as
DW Cyclone *0,80 | +76% phy | +38% as

The generalized "effectiveness" is 5% more net dmg for Cleave. The difference of 28% inc attack speed though more than compensates for that. In order those 28% increased attack speed to be less than 5% net dps increase, one must have total of more than 250% increased attack speed before main attack gem from nodes, gear and other gems. Which is not possible.
So far, for dps Cyclone > Cleave anytime.

Aoe coverage and range is more of a personal preference but still, cyclone again feels better here. 20 units frontal semicircle vs. (6+/-1[average weapon] + 2[char] + 2[master of the arena]) * 1,2 * 2 = 24 units diameter of a full circle. I can whirl/leap in the middle of group and have that 24 units covered entirely, you will left click a mob and swing at it from 2+2 yards, leaving you with only 16 units of effective aoe. Then his friends will come and surround you, half of them will be behind you and won't be touched by your 20 yards frontal char centered cleaves.

Shift swinging with Cleave will make your clear speed horribad, not even worth a mention here.


P.S. Not to mention Cleave cannot be used with claws and maces.

P.P.S. Lackluser aoe coverage of melee splash is one the reasons I don't like Dual Strike setups either

"

aGnosticc wrote:

My cyclone dps are ~ 13 k with haste and grace, and i carry pretty shitty dps gear.
U will never get close to the same defenses u get with a shield, never just not possible.

I really planned my 44 point respect and i didnt do it cuz i wanted to waste like 2 ex on regrets, but because i just saw no other way to kill the hardest shit and facetank everything. I can easily facetank residence dominus all day with a saffels and mb loose 3 k of my 6 k hp (something u will never reach with the original build) in a touch of god. Something u rly dont need to face tank, was more for the lols.

I have 18 k armor with grace up. Went up by like 11k from the previous build. Currently wearing a Lioneyes.

Also u can allow yourself to go for items like meginords cuz ure just not so screwed with your resistances. What pretty much makes the dmg difference even smaller.

The Blender build just works fine, dont get me wrong, but if u want to do 75+ maps with all the good shit like monster dmg + vulnerability + haste or -max or whatever. It wont let you do that safely.

214% Life just isnt enough, especically since, and thats the MAIN reason why i went for a shield, almost ONLY spell dmg can kill you anyways. I mean even with the original build u have like 75 % blind 48 % block and some armor ~8k i guess with decent gear. But the saffels allows u just to do any spell based boss, like crematorium, or residence, or (bit too easy) temple, or shrine.

U might also do it with the blender build, but i did that and i can tell u if u cyclone and u rly HAVE to facetank a crematorium boss, even without - max res and 77% fire res, ull die faster than u can click your instant potions if you have bad luck.

Also iam playing on Domination right now and my gear is worth mb 50 ex (like 35 Soultaker + 10 Bringer rest is pretty much shit). Dmg just isnt anything, i kill packs in a 77 maps with 1 mb cyclones so i dont rly care if i have 5 k more cyclone dps as long as i can do rly anything with almost any mods there are.

PS : you just cant use such a stupid comparison, sry but if u specced like 20 billion dual wield nodes what do u think will happen if u equip a shield xD

PPS : Just looked at your gear, you have like 2 mirrored items( one of them is a 550 dps 1h sword, rofl) and a legacy soultaker and u dont even use a bringer anymore. I mean gz that u can solo every map with that kinda gear ... But we rly must stay realistic. Almost no1 has a Soultaker and a Bringer and for normal ppl, especically those who play Domination, thats already almost impossible to get. Rly i dont even get why u post in this thread. I can solo everything with gear worth like 1k exalts, doesnt matter what ability u use. And still u will die vs a temple piety with -max res and additional projectiles.

It's easy - DW for more dmg, shield for more... armor. Everything else you can get from the other gear slots. And as you pointed out yourself, most dangerous damage is spell dmg - armor doesn't help you there.

So far - DW wins.

Now come uniques. What we have is better life sustenance for DW (Soul Taker makes you not lose life, Bloodseeker makes you heal instant) and .. max resists for 1h + shield (Saffell's). If those 5 max resists really make the difference for you in 13% more EHP between 56% (Elemental Adaptation + L20 Purity -25 max resist map) and 61%, then you are handling the wrong map mods, which is your bad, not build's. You had the informed choice to spend 1 chaos for reroll or to struggle and blame the build. In the long run nothing can save you from your bad choices in life.

"

Septemvri wrote:

"

Iyacthu wrote:

Edit : Cleave with two one handed weapons have a 84% (70*0.6*2) damage effectiveness, which is higher than Cyclone. It has a way larger AoE aswell.
At 20% Quality for both, ignoring other AoE modifiers, Cleave has +10% IAS and 20 Range, while Cyclone has +38% IAS and at best (7+2)*1.2 Range (rounded to either 10 or 11, i don't know), the 1.2 modifier being additive with other AoE modifiers.
All in all, for dual wielding, you are trading 28% IAS (which is sank among other modifiers, which should be as high as +70% excluding the skill IAS modifier meaning that it's actually more like 15/20% DPS increase at best) and movement for +4% Damage Effectiveness and a Range twice as high.

Apologizies for my poor English by the way.

Tl;dr : For dual wielding, there are way better options than Cyclone, be it Cleave or Dual Strike + Melee Splash (which should actually yield lower effective DPS than Cleave). For Cyclone, you're gaining way more by using a shield in your offhand than an other one handed weapon.

DW Cleave *0,84 | +76% phy | +10% as
DW Cyclone *0,80 | +76% phy | +38% as

The generalized "effectiveness" is 5% more net dmg for Cleave. The difference of 28% inc attack speed though more than compensates for that. In order those 28% increased attack speed to be less than 5% net dps increase, one must have total of more than 250% increased attack speed before main attack gem from nodes, gear and other gems. Which is not possible.
So far, for dps Cyclone > Cleave anytime.

Aoe coverage and range is more of a personal preference but still, cyclone again feels better here. 20 units frontal semicircle vs. (6+/-1[average weapon] + 2[char] + 2[master of the arena]) * 1,2 * 2 = 24 units diameter of a full circle. I can whirl/leap in the middle of group and have that 24 units covered entirely, you will left click a mob and swing at it from 2+2 yards, leaving you with only 16 units of effective aoe. Then his friends will come and surround you, half of them will be behind you and won't be touched by your 20 yards frontal char centered cleaves.

Shift swinging with Cleave will make your clear speed horribad, not even worth a mention here.


P.S. Not to mention Cleave cannot be used with claws and maces.

P.P.S. Lackluser aoe coverage of melee splash is one the reasons I don't like Dual Strike setups either

True that i forgot that Cyclone in a 360° whereas Cleave only half of that.
This also means that you have to be in the middle of a monster pack though to reach the same damage cover though, whereas you can 'kite' a bit with Cleave :p
As for damage output, Cyclone has the upper hand indeed, but not by a large margin.
They really screwed up Cleave with release, sadly (even Groundslam is more appealing ...)

What you pointed out is the reason i'm using Cyclone and not Cleave actually, but Cleave isn't that bad either.

"

Septemvri wrote:

P.P.S. Lackluser aoe coverage of melee splash is one the reasons I don't like Dual Strike setups either

With a 20% Melee Splash gem (Gives 20% more aoe) the aoe is pretty big

"Comparing Dual Wielding and Saffell's Frame on my char. I prefer 10k more damage(cyclone dps in town)."

So that doesnt mean u talk about dual wield vs 1h shield ?
Why would anyone even talk about cyclone vs Dual strike.... Dual strike obv. sucks u dont need a guide for that, if you tried it once.

Basically my point was : Dual wield cycloning sucks pretty hard compared to 1h shield r facebreaker cycloning in high lvl maps. And if you are a lucky one to aquire a Soul Taker + Bringer or a 6L Chest u shouldnt go for dual wield.

And your build isnt very different even if u use 3 auras. But i dont get why u even would. Phys dmg doesnt do anything to you anyways or just insta kills u in case of a dominus smash. So i guess the bonus armor from Determination is pretty useless. Might be wrong cuz u have insane gear, but for anyone with shit gear that should be true and just a waste of points.

Sry, i might have misunderstood some things in your post but linke the first sentence, i dont rly know what that should mean.

All of this is for high lvl maps (74+) only and mostly for specific bosses with specific mods. So u can do most of the game cycloning, dual wielding or not.

@ septemvri

You not only have more Resistances with a saffels, u also have 2k more hp. I always leveled Purity of Fire btw, but u cant level the Lightning resi aura since u dont have enough int to do that. Saffels reduces the dmg u take by ~ 20%, not too shabby imo. Atleast u have an option to kill insane Magic bosses. Btw u get like 60 spell block, just saying probably more important than the +max res.

You probably never went lvl 75+ maps but do u rly want to reroll a 100% quant map just cuz theres - max res ? Its not like u cant do that stuff with the build. Its just u insta die from 1-2 crits vs mad bosses. Most shit is easy as always. Its not the 10 times u run the same map and nothing happens.
For the dmg, i dont know if thats really true. I do nearly the same dmg. Mb if u have insane gear that trumps a nerfed soultaker by insane amounts u really do much mre dmg like the bro with 43k cyclone dps. But thats nothing that happens all too quickly. If you go facebreaker cyclone u do even more dmg far more easily, given u got the gear with phys dmg on it.

If iam recalling right the 43k cyclone friend has like 4.2k hp. I mean come on thats just nothing, compared to what u get hit for by magic stuff. Well i guess its a question if u accept to die or accept that u cant do specific map bosses with specific mods, or u want not to die, mb only mb u clear stuff a little slower but u can do almost every shit the game offers you without running the perma risk of death.

Since i guess most of the guys who play this build play softcore/domination, it doesnt rly matter if u die or not. Mb its just my point of view, that loosing 10% xp on lvl 90 or something isn't rly fun
or that i want to solo everything, i dont wanna be a wothless party member that sits besides Dominus and does nothing. Dunno just wanted to post the build i use after getting a Soultaker.

hi the link to the 120 point tree is not working can you please fix it i do like you spec.

hi the link to the 120 point tree is not working can you please fix it i do like you spec.

"

thirteenthghost wrote:

hi the link to the 120 point tree is not working can you please fix it i do like you spec.

It is working, it's just not in the [*url*] tags so it's not a clickable link, you just have to highlight - copy -> paste it

But here it is anyways