20Q vendor recipe=market crash

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dateneinheit wrote:

In my opinion, this recipe is realy awsome for some gems like faster casting or faster attacks. You'll only have to level these gems to lvl 10 to get the exactly same benefit from them, that you had with the gem at lvl 20. To level a gem up to lvl 10 only takes how long at the later stages of the game? 2 hours? Peanuts, if you know that every lvl after lvl 10 is pushing you beyond the point you were before.

This is exactly why I don't understand why some people don't see how broken the recipe is. Leveling is only time-consuming past level 17 and you usually don't get THAT much for the last 3 levels. Purity is a rare case where you get +1 max res at level 20. Gems like power charge on crit are better at lvl1 Q20 than at Lvl20 Q0.

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Vultighjime wrote:

You need to level a gem for something like 100 hours minimum to get it to level 20. Levelling a gem from 19 to 20 takes as long as 1 to 19.

Not a bad estimate, but even for elite players you're underestimating.

Just to verify this: today Rhalin was played Onslaught League for 6 hours 15 minutes and gained 157,877,539 XP; this is the optimal XP/hour among the entire population according to poestatistics.com. Thus we can conclude that optimal XP per hour is about 25 million per hour. A Fireball gem takes 3,290,609,850 character XP (since 10 character XP = 1 gem XP) to go from 1 to 20; this is equivalent to taking a character from level 70 to level 98 (although death penalties do not hit gems). Assuming Rhalin's pace of XP gain (which no one on that league can match), it would take 130 hours, 16 minutes and 3 seconds to accomplish the feat. That's over 5 days of play time.

Since you're probably not that good, a better estimate for most players is 200 play hours. If you play just over 2 hours a day, it'll probably take you three months.

Heh, and I was worried I left with one last GCP on Anarchy yesterday :D

For me, and for everybody who doesn't like Path of Merchants (aka AH is BAAAAD, TC is GOOOOD), discovery of this recipe is great news.

But have to change prices in my shop to chaoses :D

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Sodomee wrote:

The problem is that no one will need or want the GCPs when 90% of everyone already has 20/20 gems. People will need to trade Chaos, Divine, or Regal for items and Exalts now.

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RogueMage wrote:

And I suppose the source of these 20/20 gems will be RMT slave labor?

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Sodomee wrote:

How is this recipe going to increase the demand for GCPs? That is like saying a recipe(6Socket item+100 fusings) for a 6Link will increase the demand for fusings. It won't! Who in their right mind will need fusings when they have all the 6Links that they can ever ask for? Also I believe I am debating/discussing, not panicking or hyperventilating.

You are totally panicking and spreading misguided rumors over nothing. The simple reason why "everyone" won't be rushing to cash in their level-20 gems for Q20% level-1 gems is because it takes literally hundreds of hours of grinding to level a gem up to level-20. Aside from self-proclaimed no-lifers, the only practical way to level gems up to 20/20 will be through RMT slave labor.

The sky is not falling, and neither will the value of GCP's.

Does anyone in this thread actually say what the recipe is? Without it you can't really tell just how much of an impact it would have since... you don't know how much cheaper it is to do that way so all the people throwing around numbers is meaningless to me.

Edit: Nevermind, the Op of this thread edited his post to explain it all.
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/473385

OP: your english is hilarious. I just had to LOL reading your post :) Cool....
Everyone else: This whole discussion is hilarious.

Not that I dont like whats happening.
I am buying all GCPs like crazy now and will be doubling my currency in a month when this all boils over and people realize how dumb it was. I dont mind stating this out loud because there are 50 fools for every 1 person who is wise enough to do the same. We will all be filthy rich in a month. Well....MORE filthy rich hehe :)

Currency panicks and fluxes like this have been happening in PoE for 2 years and I've seen it many times.

But here's a simple fact about PoE economy:
GCP is the strongest currency in the game.
Chaos is great in an early league as the most standard currency, but it wanes out. I've been playing PoE through I think 6 wipes/resets so far and I see the exact same trends in currency. Chaos is worth the most for the first 2-3 weeks, then GCP takes over.
In Anarchy exactly this happened.
GCP was 1:2 chaos. A month later its 1:4. GCP doubled in value. Same versus fuse, and alch.

Ex is volatile as hell, it fluctuates wildly based on player demand, going up and down without notice. Ex is useless in the first month of a league because nobody is using them on low level items. In first 3 weeks of Anarchy you could buy ex at 1:5 gcp.
Then it goes up to 10 which is where it actually is supposed to be, and jumps over a bit for awhile during players leveling-up-and-crafting-endgame-gear period. Which is right now. Lots of people need ex to finish their endgame gear. Chaos also goes up a bit during this time.

But what about GCP? GCP is the single high-value + low-drop currency in the game that is ALWAYS needed. Every new character needs GCP. Cant say the same for alch, chaos, or ex. Fuses, Jewls, Chromatics, and GCP are the staple by which every character levels up and gears out in PoE. You can do without alch, chaos, or ex. You cant do without fuses, jewls, chroms, and GCP.
The ONLY way to get your 20% qual gems is through GCP. EVERY character needs them. The ONLY way to get your sockets and linked and colored right is fuse/jewl/chrom. EVERY character needs them.

But now lets look at the way PoE actually works, which none of us can do anything about, no matter how much we speculate on currency.

DROPRATE!
The droprate-to-usage (or supply and demand) ratio in PoE is really what sets everything.
On average for every 1 ex that drops:
10 gcps drop
40 chaos drop
80 fuses/alchs drop

Thats the ratio by which currency is coming into the game.
Thats also why currency is set at this rate and more or less defaults to it.
The only fluctuation around this is due to one thing: how much players are consuming and needing more of the currency in question.

On average, 6GCP is used per 20% quality gem at endgame.
On average, 1.5ex is used per endgame piece of gear to add mods.
On average, 20 chaos is used per endgame piece of gear to reroll it.

Look at that huge difference?
There are only 10 equipment slots, for that ex to be used on. In those 10 equipment slots there is a possible 24 gem slots, thats TWENTY FOUR GEMS that, on average, will use up 6GCP. If we even say HALF of those (so - 12 gems) are necessary to rank up to q20%, we still have 12 gems * 6GCP = 72GCP needed for each endgame character set. Versus 15ex needed, which of course means they are rolling all pieces of their gear and not using ANY uniques (which is pretty unheard of nowadays, endgame uniques are pretty crucial to most builds). So if you take half of the gear slots (5) and say you use 1.5ex on each, average, thats 7.5 (lets round up to 8) ex needed for endgame char vs 72GCP needed.

Which is about right on the droprate.
10GCP drop per 1EX.

This is how PoE economy works.
Its how it will always work.
Its why many of us play this game because they built a self-cleansing, self-healing economy model that will always stay fresh, fair, and make things fun.


In parting, here's some simple facts for you all to ponder:
1) This GCP recipe is not new. Its been around a long time and most players in alpha/closed beta knew about it. It didnt change anything.
2) Open Beta brought in TONS of new players, obviously, and most of them (not all of them, but most of them):
A) Dont really learn the game that much, they play, but dont learn mechanics, dont read mechanics thread, dont read wiki.
B) Dont understand the background of economics thats gone into the currency system in PoE, its still new to them, and will take time for them to understand.
3) GCP is the single currency that steadily rises in value from the beginning of a league/reset, and finds its mark at where it is about right now. Its always done this, it will always do this, unless GGG changes the droprates of the currency, or the way the rolls and RNG works on gear/gems/etc to somehow affect the supply/demand of currency. Which they wont.
3 or 4 chaos : 1 gcp
10 to 12 gcp : 1 ex
and alchs/fuses are always going to be around 2:1 chaos

Panic all you want, I'm actually quite happy that many of you are, because I'm selling all my chaos, exalts, fuses, chances, regals, regrets....im selling everything for GCP right now getting great deals, and in a month when you all realize you need your 20% gems again, you'll be paying me double to buy them back.

I'll see you all again then :)

If you vendor a level 20 gem and 1 gcp you get a level 1 20% gem back.

/fixed

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Nicholas_Steel wrote:

Does anyone in this thread actually say what the recipe is? Without it you can't really tell just how much of an impact it would have since... you don't know how much cheaper it is to do that way so all the people throwing around numbers is meaningless to me.

Recipe is very old and most closed beta players knew about it, at least the ones I knew did, and it wasnt any kind of secret.

It somehow got overlooked in the wiki, so I'm guessing this and a few other recipes are going to cause market panic when open beta people find out about them.

I'm going to go update the wiki though unless someone else beats me to it because I see no reason to hide recipes, though I know lots of older players that disagree with me.

Recipe is simple:
level 20 gem + GCP == quality 20% level 1 gem

Like a dozen or more players in here have already said, it doesnt change anything, its been around a long time, and getting a gem to level 20 takes a REALLY LONG TIME!

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nynyny wrote:

If you vendor a 20% level 1 gem you get 1 gcp and a level 20 gem back

You've got that backwards dude...
If that were the case, everyone would be looking to buy GCP :D

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mythal wrote:

...and in a month when you all realize you need your 20% gems again, you'll be paying me double to buy them back.

I'll see you all again then :)

And suddenly you realize that barely any gems require quality bonuses to be good.