Experience Loss Penalty for Dying = Punished and Stuck for Trying New Builds and Abilities

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Neonexe wrote:

I quite liked somebody's idea of giving more xp for long fights.

So because you are worse at killing stuff, you should get more exp?

Yes.

Not seeing how you're being rewarded for poor builds if there's no Experience penalty. If there is an experience penalty, and you make that poor build work regardless, isn't that more rewarding?

I mean, if I can just keep trying with a build until I get completely lucky and eke through a boss, I don't feel rewarded. I probably even feel cheated. I didn't earn that victory, and my build certainly didn't bring me through it. On the other hand, if I have to fight tooth and nail for every level, and then beat the boss with tactics I've been required to learn, I'll feel like I, myself, have done something worthy of pride.

One thing I find to be really cool about the xp loss on death is that it sets a soft cap on your level, rather than a hard maxlevel cap.

Why should everyone be able to reach the maximum level and beat all the content without serious effort involved? Wouldn't running out of accomplishments to do be more likely to make you quit the game than hitting a "brick wall" of difficulty that you can eventually overcome if you work at it?

I guess the actual problem is how linear the game is, so being stuck on one level basicly makes you stuck in the very same area for a long time, which admittably does seem like a punishment.

I think that if there were more alternate content to play on the same level of difficulty, you could still enjoy varied gameplay when "stuck". The coming map system seems like a good way to adress this, actually. I hope they reconsider only having it in the endgame.

The map system does get round a lot of it because you can just pick maps that are easy for your particular build.

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reaper2191 wrote:

You should have the freedom to play as you want and not get penalized for it. Being challenged does not me you have to be "punished". Trying a crazy build outside the norm and learning to do well with that is a challenge in and of itself.

As I've already said, you're not penalized for playing however you want. You're penalized for failing in some aspect or another.

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reaper2191 wrote:

My point is, what fun is there for being punished for dying?

What fun is there in succeeding when there was no real risk for failure?

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Iscariot013 wrote:

Strategy and builds are definitely a part of the game, but whenever enemies reach a high enough damage level- optimal builds become "only" builds. Just look at threads like "Endgame= Spray and pray" (paraphrased because I don't remember it's title)

That's only the case in an unbalanced game, and the devs are working very hard to make sure that many different builds and play styles are viable. They don't want players to be shoehorned into a handful of cookie-cut builds.

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Iscariot013 wrote:

Just to point out though, I beat Halo on legendary with pistol and melee. I've played Team death match games in CoD- Black ops, Mw3, Mw2, where my friends and I used only balistic knives, tommohawks, or 44 magnums. We had a 146 game winning streak in black ops where we spent the last day of it trying to come up with "themes". It was crazy fun, and it pushed our teamwork to the limit.

Just keep an open mind about how people want to play.

This basically supports my point of view. This isn't an orthodox play style, and the developers of those games didn't create the games in a way that intended for that style of play to be viable. With effort and skill, you were able to make it work. The same thing goes in PoE. There's nothing stopping players from being creative, but just like in those shooters, you will be punished if your creativity fails. If your skills weren't up to par, or you picked the wrong perks to support your effort, you would be punished with round losses, a bad K:D ratio, etc.

People in this thread remind me of my little brother. He would actually research which games have cheat codes before buying the games, and wouldn't buy games that he couldn't cheat in.

Sorry guys, this game isn't easy mode, Diablo 3 is over there, and costs way more to play.

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TheRabbit303 wrote:

People in this thread remind me of my little brother. He would actually research which games have cheat codes before buying the games, and wouldn't buy games that he couldn't cheat in.

Sorry guys, this game isn't easy mode, Diablo 3 is over there, and costs way more to play.

Not losing experience on the easiest mode of play is hardly the equivalent of using a cheat code.

Since it's so fun, make everyone play Hardcore with perm deaths and item loss....might as well...I'm sure everyone will have a total blast because it's so challenging and rewarding....let's see how successful the game is.

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reaper2191 wrote:

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Or if you die a lot, makes you not reach the next one til you sort things out. Effectively forcing you to make a build that can survive in order to reach the higher levels.

How is being forced to play a certain way fun? Being pigeon-holed to play a certain way is one of the downfalls of D3. If people like playing with crazy builds and specs, let them. Cookie cutter playing is not fun because you are just a copy of someone else. Yes they may have more success, but that is probably due to the quality of gear they have.

Not all tactics work for everyone. Following a cookie-cutter spec does not guarantee anything. A player might be awful at that spec, while they rock at some crazy spec that is totally unorthodox to everyone else. Telling someone they have to play this certain way to have fun is no different than Jay Wilson over at Blizzard telling you the same thing. And look what is happening to that game...

Yeah, part of the reason that game was exploited so badly was the lack of a meaningful death penalty in SC. This allowed people to just corpse run through the game on Inferno to get to abusive loot spots.... yet you are suggesting PoE follow suit and drop death penalty?

I don't believe an xp penalty is needed in normal but it should get very steep by the last difficulty.

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reaper2191 wrote:

This whole topic is about the death penalty, not whether or not you are "decent" at building a character. No amount of gear, "skill", or hand/eye coordination is going to make you better at a game. Its trial and error. Period. Try something outside the box and if it works, great, stick with it. If it doesn't, choose something else.

You sir are sooo wrong I actually lold when I read that statement. Seriously remarkable. How can having skill not make you better at something? Or you are simply stating that there are no skills involved in playing games? Sounds like you have no skills....