Experience Loss Penalty for Dying = Punished and Stuck for Trying New Builds and Abilities
"No, they don't. If your build can't beat the content, it doesn't matter if there is an xp penalty or not. It simply can't beat the game. In order to change this, the player is forced to alter the build into one that can beat the content. The only other option would be for the game to pose less challenge to allow for builds that, technically, suck at the game. You can't just randomly pick passives, throw on random gear with random skill gems and expect to beat the game. That's sandboxing, and this game isn't made for that type of play. The game offers you every tool needed to excel, and you don't even have to use all of them. For example, resistances make the game far less dangerous, but you can play without them if you want. You can choose different defensive types, different skills, and different tactics. The only thing the game forces on you is a challenge to create a character that can kill effectively and safely. How is that different from any other RPG? Character building is an immensely important part of the game, and if you're not at least decent at that, you're not going to be decent at the game. The game will punish you for poor decisions. Being decent at character building will make the game fun and challenging, and certainly possible. If you can build a decent character, you'll do fine in the game. It is not hard at all to build a decent character. I'm not even talking about "good" characters and certainly not "optimal" characters. Picking obvious choices will do well enough, generally. You're not restricted to only a few builds per class that work. You can get very creative with passives, items, and skills and be successful. It doesn't take an expert player, a genius, or a cookie-cutter build. I don't understand the argument that a player should be able to build as poorly as he wants and then be able to defeat any challenge the game poses by simply trying it over and over. But, hey, if you want to do that, you certainly can. You can only lose so much xp. You won't lose a level, you won't lose gear, and you won't lose your character. If you somehow manage to get all the way to Merciless, just plan your progression so you fight the hardest bosses right after you level so you don't have any spare xp to lose. Every video game has certain limitations to what the player can and can't do. The challenges in PoE are no different. If you can't kill enemies in Call of Duty effectively, they're going to kill you and you won't progress. You can't fairly complain that you want to use nothing but the knife, so the game should allow you to win by using nothing but the knife. You are punished for making poor decisions. Closed Beta/Alpha Tester back after a 10-year hiatus. First in the credits! Last edited by WhiteBoy#6717 on Jul 3, 2012, 5:03:54 PM
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" EXACTLY!!! You are spot on sir...thank you for your input...greatly appreciated and I agree with you 100%. I have had tremendous amount of fun in games not using conventional builds/abilities in games, and have died a lot experimenting, but SOOO fun and rewarding when you can make it work. Loss of experience takes away large element of experimentation possibility for me. It’s less fun to have to go back to previous Acts to try out different builds. I want to be able to experiment in Acts that I’m currently in. |
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" Not sure if English is your first language, but that hurt my brain. But, I agree that with no risk, there is no fun. I'm on board with no experience gain upon death, but still not sold on experience loss. I think it's an unnecessary unfun hardship that will turn off some players. |
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This whole topic is about the death penalty, not whether or not you are "decent" at building a character. No amount of gear, "skill", or hand/eye coordination is going to make you better at a game. Its trial and error. Period. Try something outside the box and if it works, great, stick with it. If it doesn't, choose something else.
You should have the freedom to play as you want and not get penalized for it. Being challenged does not me you have to be "punished". Trying a crazy build outside the norm and learning to do well with that is a challenge in and of itself. My point is, what fun is there for being punished for dying? If I wanted that type of play style, I would play HC. If I am able to progress through the game, die a bunch of times, but get better at it, I am more than likely going to try my hand at HC leagues or the like. The simple fact is, that what is a challenge for you, is not the same kind of challenge for someone else. http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/37302 That topic is a suitable "penalty" minus the experience loss. |
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" For the success of the game, I hope you're wrong about PoE wanting a casual gamer population. A large portion of casual gamers have a lot of disposable income and like to buy needless virtual items in F2P games. I feel like the game is very accessible right for wide swath of gamers except for the experience loss on normal mode. Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t feel that PoE would be easy, not challenging, and not rewarding if the experience loss was nerfed or removed. All experience loss is going to do is pare down the player base. Some casual players will get frustrated too early on in their experience and quit. There are harder modes for those looking for a pro challenge. Casual gamers want to have fun. Experience loss is not fun. |
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" I'm not trying to invalidate your opinion. I completely understand your point of view. Strategy and builds are definitely a part of the game, but whenever enemies reach a high enough damage level- optimal builds become "only" builds. Just look at threads like "Endgame= Spray and pray" (paraphrased because I don't remember it's title) Just to point out though, I beat Halo on legendary with pistol and melee. I've played Team death match games in CoD- Black ops, Mw3, Mw2, where my friends and I used only ballistic knives, tomahawks, or 44 magnums. We had a 146 game winning streak in black ops where we spent the last day of it trying to come up with "themes". It was crazy fun, and it pushed our teamwork to the limit. Just keep an open mind about how people want to play. Last edited by Iscariot013#6268 on Jul 4, 2012, 4:40:13 AM
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" Doing well isn't dying 20 times while clearing a dungeon and relying on not having enemies respawn while still leveling up like any other player. But that's what it is without a penalty. Last edited by golem09#3277 on Jul 3, 2012, 5:40:34 PM
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" While an admirable sentiment, your take on it is ultimately rather problematic in a multiplayer environment: a lack of death penalty means that there is an economic penalty for sacrificing one's damage output in favor of safety, which leads to players attempting "tank" builds falling behind. I have wandered through insanity;
I have walked the spiral out. Heard its twisted dreamed inanity In a whisper, in a shout. In the babbling cacophony The refrains are all the same: "[permutations of humanity] are unworthy of the name!" |
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" Unless players are attempting to climb the ladder, you're not really falling behind anything. Progression should be done at the rate of the player, not the community. Some player will progress faster than other, but if you are only able to play one hour out of the day, progress is still progress no matter how little it may be. Your argument about it being an "economic" issue is understandable. [The way I see it, though, is that it will at least make a market for "unusual" stat items. So if someone's build is strength and intelligence (not sure why lol) there will be a need for items with those stats on it.] <- Off topic a bit. I know you can only lose so much experience before you are back at 0/xxxxxxx, but you have to look at the frustration of the player who hits that, basically losing all the time and effort just because you come across something that is a little tough to beat. Now take that and put it towards multiple occasions and you see frustration is not fun for anyone, even to the point of leaving the game altogether. The link I posted in an above thread was a decent solution to this issue. Why not have a buff the longer you stay alive, then lose % based on the amount of times you die, eventually falling back to no buff at all? That seems like a much better alternative to losing time and effort, especially when people do not have that much to give in the first place. |
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I do feel like slow, defensive builds need a way to get a decent amount of xp per hour. I quite liked somebody's idea of giving more xp for long fights.
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