Experience Loss Penalty for Dying = Punished and Stuck for Trying New Builds and Abilities

"

Dreamify wrote:

"

calabi wrote:

The thing about the experience penalty is you've taken away something you've already given the player.

This is not the way I see it. Experience points are not a real thing that you can use, they are just a counter towards the next level. A level is a real thing, taking a way a level would be bad, I agree, but they're not doing that.

Honestly I think it's a lot more interesting when you are not awarded a level no matter what, that there is a bit of a challenge to it.


You actually have a point in the resetting you to town thing being a bit unneccessairly harsh though. I agree that start of the level would be better.

But exp is a thing that you've gained through time and effort. Its a counter that has gone up and your expectation of the next level. Its not really a challenge to gain what you've lost, just a chore.

See I wouldnt neccesarily object to them taking it away. But if they do something like that they have to make it clear from the beginning and make it a part of the game(a currency of some kind?, give it limits and rules). Not just introduce it later like "Oh by the way you can lose exp progress now, why? just because!".

However in my opinion this isnt the sort of a game where you should be taking away players progress. These sorts of game are primarily based on getting more powerfull through progression.

The challenge is to stay alive long enough to level up.

You get xp from just about anything, no need to do something you already did.

"

calabi wrote:

What if I'm not aware that your supposed to open a portal in every area just in case you die. Why do I have to be aware of this, how do I become aware of this? Why do I have to be responsible for this?

And forcing players to use scrolls does not make them valuable. Making all these currencies rare isnt going to make it work thats not how a currency system works.

You find them, you can read the description. If you can still not put 1+1 together in that situation, you have my pity. And that's exactly how this currency system works. And pretty much everyone loves it for it.

"

calabi wrote:

Your progress is diminished, you must play longer just to get where you were before, and games like this are all about the progress.

Your progress is diminished in ONE field. While catching up on that one, your are making new, unrepeated progress in THREE other fields. So you are not repeating just what you did before.

"

calabi wrote:

So failure should always be punished to the maximum?

Yes.


My god, I'm so glad that GGG makes a game like this in times where you represent the voice of the majority.

"

golem09 wrote:

My god, I'm so glad that GGG makes a game like this in times where you represent the voice of the majority.

A lot of people posting things like this seem to have the idea that PoE is difficult, or hardcore, but it's not. Gear check after gear check is not difficulty. PoE is not the skill-based game you think it is. You are not good at PoE; nobody is. Characterizing all of the people complaining about the broken endgame balance as casual, softcore, unskilled, etc. is not helpful and it makes you look like a douchebag.

Personally, I wouldn't care at all about the death penalty if I wasn't being punished for being unlucky and for being stupid enough to keep playing rather than waiting for the next patch.

"

OnmyojiOmn wrote:

PoE is not the skill-based game you think it is. You are not good at PoE; nobody is.

I fully disagree. Ladder rushes aren't won on gear alone. Beating groups of 2-3 rares with auras isn't based on gear alone.

If you think there aren't varying levels of player skill, you're badly mistaken. If 2 players with exact copies of a character were to play them, they would play differently and with different levels of effectiveness.

Doing the right things at the right time is more important than having great gear. Your ability to do that is what determines your level of skill.

Based on your statement, everyone can play PoE just as well as, say, the devs. That's obviously not the case.

"

WhiteBoy88 wrote:

"

OnmyojiOmn wrote:

PoE is not the skill-based game you think it is. You are not good at PoE; nobody is.

I fully disagree. Ladder rushes aren't won on gear alone. Beating groups of 2-3 rares with auras isn't based on gear alone.

If you think there aren't varying levels of player skill, you're badly mistaken. If 2 players with exact copies of a character were to play them, they would play differently and with different levels of effectiveness.

Doing the right things at the right time is more important than having great gear. Your ability to do that is what determines your level of skill.

Based on your statement, everyone can play PoE just as well as, say, the devs. That's obviously not the case.

I think anyone with a roughly equal amount of experience with PoE and similar games will be able to do about as well as anyone else. Knowledge isn't skill either. People are talking about the game as if it was Counter-Strike, and that's ridiculous. I do think anyone who has played the game as much as the devs have could play their characters as well as they could.

It's a different type of skill than shooters, but there is still a lot of skill involved in being good at this type of game.

"

OnmyojiOmn wrote:

Knowledge isn't skill either.

That's just a matter of how you define skill.

Differenty people learn game mechanics at different speeds. Some people see more ways to combo abilities than others do.

Some people put a lot of time into analyzing what would be a good path in the passive tree and what gear is better for them. Some don't have the patience to. Some wouldn't come up with anything good even if they did, unless they have some help getting the concepts straight. Some have been doing this kinda thing long enough to come up with good choices quickly.

All of these things can be practiced, and you can get better at them. You don't have to call it skill if you don't want to, but it will still make people with the very same resources play at different capacity. So why not call it skill?

"

OnmyojiOmn wrote:

"

golem09 wrote:

My god, I'm so glad that GGG makes a game like this in times where you represent the voice of the majority.

A lot of people posting things like this seem to have the idea that PoE is difficult, or hardcore, but it's not. Gear check after gear check is not difficulty. PoE is not the skill-based game you think it is. You are not good at PoE; nobody is. Characterizing all of the people complaining about the broken endgame balance as casual, softcore, unskilled, etc. is not helpful and it makes you look like a douchebag.

Personally, I wouldn't care at all about the death penalty if I wasn't being punished for being unlucky and for being stupid enough to keep playing rather than waiting for the next patch.

I do know exactly what you are talking about.
My statement still applies.
I'm so glad that GGG makes a game like this in such times.

"

calabi wrote:

I dont like this. Why punish players for dying? Your dead you've punished the player.

Death itself is not a punishment, it is you failing. The game punishes you for failing as any good RPG should.

"

calabi wrote:

There's loads of articles about why dying, punishing players is bad in games.

Who cares. There is loads of articles about a lot of irrelevant shit, doesn't mean anything.

"

calabi wrote:

I dont like the fact that you get reset right back at the town, thats bad enough and that in my opinion should be fixed. You should reset at the beginning of that level. Even a hardcore game like Bayonetta has tons of checkpoints, so you dont have to redo sections pointlessly over and over again.

lol, quit dying so much?

"

calabi wrote:

What does it disinhibit what does it do? Do you not want people to play your game. The thing about the experience penalty is you've taken away something you've already given the player.

disinhibit? The experience penalty for dying will keep people from trying to farm areas that are out of their level/gear/skill range effectively. Do you want to be able to zerg rush all content by chain dieing? Or corpse hop through the entire game without killing anything ala D3?

"

calabi wrote:

This isnt really skill based game either. Its basically based on experience points and gear, and your going to take one of the vital things away.

Bad players always say that... it doesn't take skill.... then why are so many people better than you? luck? lols

"

calabi wrote:

Honestly I cant be bothered with games that do things like this. I dont mind being punished for failure, but not excessively and vindictively which is what this is like.

Please, don't be bothered. If you feel losing xp is excessive or vindictive than this is not the game for you. Go play some junk mmo, im sure it will be more to your liking.

Sorry if Im a bit harsh, but your attitude is exactly what is wrong with gaming these days.