JUST GOT MY DIABLO 3 DIGITAL COPY REFUND!

"

Charanjaydemyr wrote:

"

necromuso wrote:

And this is what is wrong with america today. Pay for something and play it for two weeks, using there valuable resources (Not like they can resell it after you open it) then try and return it because it is not perfect for you. It is EXACTLY what it advertises, you bought it, you should have to have your money stay spent

Pictures or it never happened.

Ignoring the nationalism of this post (I'm Australian), I sincerely do pity all the people who feel Diablo 3 was so unsatisfactory that they have to return it for money. As is well known, I dodged that bullet, but I have lots of friends who play and love D3. They don't feel like they've not gotten their money's worth, and good for them I say.

Diablo 3 is exactly what it advertised. Necromuso is very much right there. Anyone who claims they didn't see the issues of the game coming didn't do their research and/or think for a moment about what happens when the world's most pre-ordered game *in history* goes live in one day.

So while I pity the people, I also think, well, it's not like you weren't warned. It's not as if there weren't signs that this Diablo release wasn't going to be the same as the others in the past. It's your money -- don't spend it so recklessly next time. That's what I want to say, even if I look like a hypocrite saying so.

But if GGG goes down and PoE flops, you won't see me lining up for a $1000 refund.

I'll add, then, to what necromuso said, in stating that another thing wrong with not just America but any nation of relative wealth and privilege: people need to own their mistakes and not expect a respec on their bank balance.

I already replied to this.

"

EvilMoogle wrote:

"

Charanjaydemyr wrote:

"

necromuso wrote:

And this is what is wrong with america today. Pay for something and play it for two weeks, using there valuable resources (Not like they can resell it after you open it) then try and return it because it is not perfect for you. It is EXACTLY what it advertises, you bought it, you should have to have your money stay spent

Pictures or it never happened.

Ignoring the nationalism of this post (I'm Australian), I sincerely do pity all the people who feel Diablo 3 was so unsatisfactory that they have to return it for money. As is well known, I dodged that bullet, but I have lots of friends who play and love D3. They don't feel like they've not gotten their money's worth, and good for them I say.

Diablo 3 is exactly what it advertised. Necromuso is very much right there. Anyone who claims they didn't see the issues of the game coming didn't do their research and/or think for a moment about what happens when the world's most pre-ordered game *in history* goes live in one day.

So while I pity the people, I also think, well, it's not like you weren't warned. It's not as if there weren't signs that this Diablo release wasn't going to be the same as the others in the past. It's your money -- don't spend it so recklessly next time. That's what I want to say, even if I look like a hypocrite saying so.

But if GGG goes down and PoE flops, you won't see me lining up for a $1000 refund.

I'll add, then, to what necromuso said, in stating that another thing wrong with not just America but any nation of relative wealth and privilege: people need to own their mistakes and not expect a respec on their bank balance.

I already replied to this.

Likely so. It wasn't really a reply to anything, just a contribution drawing on the broader concept of what people on the internet refer to as 'privileged behaviour'. It's not a term I throw around lightly.

"

Charanjaydemyr wrote:

Likely so. It wasn't really a reply to anything, just a contribution drawing on the broader concept of what people on the internet refer to as 'privileged behaviour'. It's not a term I throw around lightly.

You obviously didn't read a single word I wrote.

When the Game Director promises a product, that product is expected to be delivered. Had I known everything Jay Wilson said at Blizzcon about Diablo 3 was a lie, I would not have purchased the game.

Feel free to go through my post and tell me if anything he said that I quoted him on was actually true about the game. Seeing as the key selling point to Diablo 3 was Inferno and the Auction House its safe to say that by lying about Inferno you scammed everyone who purchased the game for Inferno. Nobody bought the game to just play through Normal lets be realistic here, Diablo has always been about its difficulty and loot.

When people are introduced to a difficulty mode that pigeonholes you into 1 build and 1 way to play your character they are going to be upset because that is not what Blizzard advertised.

And I don't know if you bought the game or not but what you can expect to see is Barbarians and Monks being forced to tank and/or exploit the game in A4 and skip impossible elite packs in order to farm for gear. The hardcore exploiters who used the most insane exploits when the game was released racked up millions of gold and Blizzard only hotfixed the exploits (not all) and what you saw was hundreds of items on the AH overpriced for anyone who didn't exploit the game.

This wouldn't be an issue however I just minded my own business and ignored the AH while farming for gear. Too bad the game is designed for you to use the AH to gear up and progress. There is a blue post somewhere where Bashiok states the drop rates are extremely low because they want to encourage you to use the AH soon to be RMAH. So basically you will be farming A1 Inferno for 3-4 months to find 1 piece of gear or you will buy gear from the AH. Which sounds funner? Probably neither. Seeing as the AH is run by exploiters and Wizards/Demon Hunters who are dominating Inferno. As a Level 60 Monk the Inferno was a joke, you need to build pure Resist and Vitality in order to just survive and even then most elite packs 1 shot melee with 1k+ resist it really doesn't make a difference which is why Demon Hunters are going glass cannon and you see them with 95-140k DPS with like 20k health and they don't care because you get 1 shot anyway too bad melee don't get that luxury.

Look up Athene's livestream he is not the only DH but he is one of the top and he can kill Butcher in 3 seconds. He can kill most elite packs in a matter of seconds and so can most other Demon Hunters and Wizards aren't exactly struggling much either. If you look at Blizzard's Game Guide class descriptions and previous gameplay videos you rarely ever saw a Monk or Barb using a shield they were using dual wield and 2 handers. You really think people who rolled a Monk/Barb thought they were going to go sword and board at Level 60? Based on all the interviews, videos and promises nobody expected this garbage.

tl'dr

Difficulty: http://youtu.be/u8CBbeSAjVo

Itemization: http://youtu.be/hI4peeO3yzY

Even the story was garbage: http://youtu.be/8G4lX-MKrgI

Error 37: http://youtu.be/GsqUZkmO-zk

No I didn't get my opinions and complaints from YouTube videos but people who post some of these Youtube videos know how to sum up my words more clearly and properly.

The entire country of Korea is pissed at Blizzard so I think have a right to a refund. Its really annoying how you feel the need to strike at me and act as if I am some spoiled brat when this is the first time I have ever refunded a game like this. I have purchased Warhammer, SWTOR, FFXIV, Aion, Age of Conan, and several other failures that are sitting in my closet right now collecting dust. So really if you think you can judge me based on wanted 1 refund for 1 terrible game go for it. Whatever floats your boat I always say.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/05/30/korean-government-raids-blizzard-over-alleged-diablo-iii-wrongdo/

Okay. First of all, let me iterate -- I was responding to something necromuso said, because it resonated with me. I get the feeling you're taking offence to something I said, which was obviously not my intention. But let me go through what you've said to me most recently and we'll see if we can reach some amenable conclusion...

"

EvilMoogle wrote:

You obviously didn't read a single word I wrote.

Yes I did. Several of them. I just wasn't responding to them. That's why I didn't quote you. I think you made very good points, in fact. BUT I also think that what I said regarding privilege and expectations applies in a broader sense. Not necessarily to you. You got your money back and used it for something I'm sure we all agree is infinitely better. Good for you. So, that's that out of the way. I did read it, I didn't respond directly to it, I responded to someone else based on their reaction to you. This is no ground to accuse me of not reading what you wrote. At all.

"

EvilMoogle wrote:

When the Game Director promises a product, that product is expected to be delivered. Had I known everything Jay Wilson said at Blizzcon about Diablo 3 was a lie, I would not have purchased the game.

That goes without saying, doesn't it? Hindsight and all that. Unfortunately Mr Jay Wilson is far from the first to make grand claims about an unreleased product and that product falls far short of the mark. That said, there was so much buzz about this product, so much hype and counter-hype, that I do believe there were warning signs. I feel like I'm repeating myself here, and I'm not overly fond of that. Suffice to say -- obviously.

"

EvilMoogle wrote:

Feel free to go through my post and tell me if anything he said that I quoted him on was actually true about the game. Seeing as the key selling point to Diablo 3 was Inferno and the Auction House its safe to say that by lying about Inferno you scammed everyone who purchased the game for Inferno. Nobody bought the game to just play through Normal lets be realistic here, Diablo has always been about its difficulty and loot.

I wouldn't know, I didn't play it. I thought I made that clear. I was in the beta, a certain patch disappointed me, I found PoE, end of story. I'm not even sure why you're calling me out on this. It's utterly unrelated to the point I made bouncing off necromuso's comment. I can't begin to express to you how little I care about Diablo 3's details. Whether it failed or succeeded. This feature or that. The letdowns, the highlights. I feel like I should show you what I wrote when I first found Path of Exile, because it would make my stance abundantly clear. But I think I'm doing a fine job of it here.

And I know several people who played Diablo 3 and stopped after finishing Normal. Most of them were old Bnetters who just wanted to see how the Story would end, the story they were so invested in from the moment their character arrived in Tristram back in 1997. Me, I just watched the youtubes of those horrid cut-scenes. As far as I'm concerned, Sanctuary's story ended with Lord of Destruction. That works for me.

"

EvilMoogle wrote:

When people are introduced to a difficulty mode that pigeonholes you into 1 build and 1 way to play your character they are going to be upset because that is not what Blizzard advertised.

Okay. Again, don't see why you're throwing all of this at me. Is it because I said there were warning signs? Is that the thrust of this? If so, I'd counter-challenge you to prove to me there weren't. See above re: my apathy towards the details of D3. This includes build-pigeonholing. Do I think that is worthy of a refund? Sorry, no I don't. Refunds are for defective products, not just products that don't satisfy you individually. UNLESS it is the company's policy to do so. There is, from what I have seen, nothing glaringly defective about Diablo 3 as a game. The servers are messy, but again, hardly the first game to suffer that. You can still play through the game, several times in fact, without some global issue like a bug that causes everyone to crash at a certain point. Missing features can't be cited as a defect because Blizzard acknowledged they wouldn't be in. I really am sorry but I HAVE looked at the Diablo 3 box and I'm pretty sure you get what it promises. As for whatever Jay Wilson said about it, well, that's his cross to bear I'm afraid. Like I said, hardly the first time someone's hyped a game and it's been a letdown. Are we to expect refunds every single time that happens?

Now, I don't KNOW the details behind the refund situation and, hopefully for the last time, I don't really care. My comment was merely that where necromuso feels the 'problem' lies with people expecting refunds because the game didn't personally satisfy them, I added that I feel people sometimes use ignorance as an excuse to make that mistake in the first place, and then blame someone else. I reinforced that with my belief that Diablo 3 had a bunch of flashing red lights -- and confirm that belief with the fact that I, who bought D1 on release and several copies thereafter, who loved D2 so much as to create a build for it, and basically was a Blizzard fanboy from 1996 through to 2004 or so, jumped ship well before D3 came out. If I saw them, it slightly baffles me that others did not as well. Then again, what I saw as problems others saw as negligible. I'm happy for them, and very jealous that they can enjoy D3. Very.

"

EvilMoogle wrote:

And I don't know if you bought the game or not but what you can expect to see is Barbarians and Monks being forced to tank and/or exploit the game in A4 and skip impossible elite packs in order to farm for gear. The hardcore exploiters who used the most insane exploits when the game was released racked up millions of gold and Blizzard only hotfixed the exploits (not all) and what you saw was hundreds of items on the AH overpriced for anyone who didn't exploit the game.

Actually, you did know if I bought the game or not because I made it quite clear I didn't. I said, "As is well known, I dodged that bullet, but I have lots of friends who play and love D3." This is fairly straightforward.

The rest of that paragraph falls under the 'don't care about D3's details' category I've already constructed for you.

"

EvilMoogle wrote:

This wouldn't be an issue however I just minded my own business and ignored the AH while farming for gear. Too bad the game is designed for you to use the AH to gear up and progress. There is a blue post somewhere where Bashiok states the drop rates are extremely low because they want to encourage you to use the AH soon to be RMAH. So basically you will be farming A1 Inferno for 3-4 months to find 1 piece of gear or you will buy gear from the AH. Which sounds funner? Probably neither. Seeing as the AH is run by exploiters and Wizards/Demon Hunters who are dominating Inferno. As a Level 60 Monk the Inferno was a joke, you need to build pure Resist and Vitality in order to just survive and even then most elite packs 1 shot melee with 1k+ resist it really doesn't make a difference which is why Demon Hunters are going glass cannon and you see them with 95-140k DPS with like 20k health and they don't care because you get 1 shot anyway too bad melee don't get that luxury.

As does this.

As does what you edited in. Good grief, do you think I'm trying to DEFEND Diablo 3? Look at the words to the right of this post. Diamond. Supporter. Attack me all you want for my love of PoE, but if you're going to even begin thinking I would defend anything about D3, which is to me a total abortion of a game, I think...that might actually be a forum first.

So what exactly is your beef with me? :) Let's get that clear so that you can say some things I can more directly respond to -- now that I have made clear I wasn't talking about how D3 turned out, merely how I personally saw signs that it wouldn't turn out as the hype said it would, how SO MANY OTHERS also saw the signs...and, by extension, how this plethora of pre-release tension can be seen as a fairly good reason why people who bought D3 expecting everything Jay Wilson, whose sole aim was to sell as many copies of this dog of a game as possible, promised are not entirely blameless in their purchase and subsequent disappointment.

As someone who has all the Warcraft games, all the Starcraft games, and all the WoW games. I guess I gave Blizzard the benefit of the doubt. Silly me? I gave SE the benefit of the doubt with FFXIV as well. I guess I could learn a lesson but really the point isn't the refund. I am merely making a statement that the game was garbage and by refunding it and many others we are proving how much we truly are frustrated and upset with the game.

They have been having server issues for 2 weeks now which was my main reasoning behind my refund although I did include in my ticket all the other reasons I posted. This is probably the worst launch I've ever seen. For 2 weeks you have the AH constantly getting bugged, taking people's gold and not giving them the item, or you sell something and don't get the gold, then the AH is shutdown followed by more server restarts and 8 hour + maintenance followed by 6-7 hours of downtime because the maintenance screwed something up.

Surely you can agree that this degree of technical problems with a company that has as much money as Blizzard is unacceptable? Why is it acceptable for Blizzard to have such huge issues with releases? You would think by now they would have this stuff figured out? Blizzard has no idea what they are doing with server maintenance. Why should we give them a break? If we know millions of people are going to login on launch day, Blizzard knows that. And server issues happen but with Blizzard these issues happen every time. How did they not know the servers wouldn't have issues based on the number of preorders?

Its remarkable how Blizzard advertised a game with false information, and weren't even prepared for the onslaught of people trying to login. This was suppose to be the 3rd major sequel to a very popular game they produce and they really couldn't figure out after all their game releases how to make Diablo 3 run?

I understand games are hyped up and you shouldn't believe into hype. But when a company of Blizzard's caliber feeds us information at Blizzcon, you take that information for granted if you are a loyal Blizzard customer. Which is why I was so upset, Blizzard is not some Indie startup company like GGG this bullshit is unacceptable. This would be acceptable for GGG isn't PoE their first game release? So it would make sense if there are release problems and nobody really knows GGG so if they screw up it wouldn't come as a real shocker. But Blizzard has a track record so Blizzard hype is suppose to stay true their word when they release products.

The key to that is the word 'unacceptable.' I didn't buy Diablo 3; didn't even pre-order it. I gave up on Blizzard the moment I tried the World of Warcraft beta. It just didn't resonate with that same level of genius D1, Wc2, D2, SC and to some extent WC3 did. That was it for me. I won't lie and say that Diablo 3 didn't look awesome at first, and that the proposed skill rune system didn't strike me as PRECISELY the sort of genius Blizzard has been lacking for almost a decade...but they couldn't follow through with even that. It was 'too hard' for them. Well, Blizzard, a bunch of self-funded kiwis have pulled it off. Way to go.

So for you ask if I agree that what Blizzard has done is 'unacceptable' seems pretty much unnecessary. ;)

I can only say 'sorry' on their behalf so many times, because I am genuinely sorry. The first days of my disappointment with D3 were very dark indeed. I scoured the fora for evidence of shared discontent. There wasn't much at all. I didn't dare post because the community at large has turned rabid. I used to be very prolific in my posting at what is now diabloinc.gamers, back when it was diabloii.net. That's where I shared my insights on the Meleemancer; it's where I even gave Fan-fic a go.

We're a long way from that when it comes to Blizzard communities now. A long way.

So when I found PoE, it was like that moment when you clear the Den of Evil. The crepuscular rays shone through, the darkness passed. It was glorious. It couldn't last. Nothing does. Honeymoon period and all that. My long-time partner Blizzard had come back to me, and then cheated yet again, and Path of Exile/Grinding Gear Games looked like a very dangerous rebound. But I'm still here...

When I tell you I feel your pain, I want you to understand fully how deeply I was invested in Blizzard as a fan and a player.

So was D3 unacceptable to me? ABSOLUTELY.

...Are we finally on the same page here?

When a company makes official claims and produces a particular expectation and then charges for that service and falls short.. the consumer deserves their money back if they are dissatisfied.

There are consumer protection laws in most countries that protect these aspects.

Also some of those reviews are great... they showcase just how inept this Blizzard team was. vidyagaymelive enjoys D3, but rips it a new butthole with objective analysis.

"

zeto wrote:

When a company makes official claims and produces a particular expectation and then charges for that service and falls short.. the consumer deserves their money back if they are dissatisfied.

There are consumer protection laws in most countries that protect these aspects.

Also some of those reviews are great... they showcase just how inept this Blizzard team was. vidyagaymelive enjoys D3, but rips it a new butthole with objective analysis.

Is it likely then that ignorance, still, is the factor? But in this case, ignorance regarding such laws? Or is it (and this I can believe) generally just too much effort to legally prove your dissatisfaction and demand your money back?

I just don't see many people exercising such rights when it comes to dissatisfaction. How far can it go? What about movie hype? Books? Does the point lie in 'official claims'?

I still occasionally glance at the metacritic for D3. It's still an amazing illustration of critics vs. consumers. Nothing new, but I really was hoping for more critically incisive reviews...

Not expecting, just hoping.

"

Charanjaydemyr wrote:

The key to that is the word 'unacceptable.' I didn't buy Diablo 3; didn't even pre-order it. I gave up on Blizzard the moment I tried the World of Warcraft beta. It just didn't resonate with that same level of genius D1, Wc2, D2, SC and to some extent WC3 did. That was it for me. I won't lie and say that Diablo 3 didn't look awesome at first, and that the proposed skill rune system didn't strike me as PRECISELY the sort of genius Blizzard has been lacking for almost a decade...but they couldn't follow through with even that. It was 'too hard' for them. Well, Blizzard, a bunch of self-funded kiwis have pulled it off. Way to go.

So for you ask if I agree that what Blizzard has done is 'unacceptable' seems pretty much unnecessary. ;)

I can only say 'sorry' on their behalf so many times, because I am genuinely sorry. The first days of my disappointment with D3 were very dark indeed. I scoured the fora for evidence of shared discontent. There wasn't much at all. I didn't dare post because the community at large has turned rabid. I used to be very prolific in my posting at what is now diabloinc.gamers, back when it was diabloii.net. That's where I shared my insights on the Meleemancer; it's where I even gave Fan-fic a go.

We're a long way from that when it comes to Blizzard communities now. A long way.

So when I found PoE, it was like that moment when you clear the Den of Evil. The crepuscular rays shone through, the darkness passed. It was glorious. It couldn't last. Nothing does. Honeymoon period and all that. My long-time partner Blizzard had come back to me, and then cheated yet again, and Path of Exile/Grinding Gear Games looked like a very dangerous rebound. But I'm still here...

When I tell you I feel your pain, I want you to understand fully how deeply I was invested in Blizzard as a fan and a player.

So was D3 unacceptable to me? ABSOLUTELY.

...Are we finally on the same page here?

I think we are on the same page now. In fact I just became a Supporter because that seems like a reasonably good use for the refund money, I'll give the game a little more time before I decide to upgrade any further but I love supporting Indie games.

Like I said earlier I've bought dozens of hyped up games that ended up crashing and burning. If I could have gotten a refund for them as a farewell "fuck you" to those companies for ripping me off it would have felt great. Sadly this is not always the case.

Its true that its a bit spoiled and selfish to think I can buy a game and play it and expect a refund if it fails to deliver. But it feels great getting that $63.74 back because it sends a strong message. I made this same thread on the Diablo 3 forums and it managed to get about 30 pages before getting deleted and to my surprise my thread was highly rated and it wasn't even reported by anyone or requested for a close/delete. You know a game is really bad when there aren't even enough fanboys to downrate a thread this offensive and whatever fanboys did post in my thread I simply asked them why they weren't playing and ironically enough they said "servers are down" go figure?

I'm no consumer protection expert, but I must assume it relies on official claims.

The average discrepancy between what is delivered and what is desired is often much much smaller than what D3 did. Most companies will and do give refunds for games... but many others will fight it, knowing that in order to get your money back you'd have to sue in court. I've mostly seen this with item shops though... things you purchase from within the game AFTER you've gotten the game (often within a free to play game)

The cost and trouble of bringing a lawsuit is usually a deterrent, but when potentially faced with many such things, it's better to offer the refund than face a class action.

Also depends on the store... some stores up front have policies that they enforce, and you might have to again, take the company to court.

I read a story where a guy tried to return a game, and they stated they only take games back that are unopened, but that they can trade your defective open game for the same game. So the guy traded his defective open game for the same closed game, then returned the closed game for a refund :P

In either case, if you press hard enough, you are protected... but the vast majority of people have enough lawyer skills to make it worth the couple dozen dollars they paid.

Companies actually rely on this... most 'as seen on tv' products are like this.. they rely on you simply throwing up your hands and accepting it, and the percentage of people who keep products they don't want or like is much higher than the percentage that returns it.