JUST GOT MY DIABLO 3 DIGITAL COPY REFUND!

"

Flauros wrote:

The point is whether or not he was satisfied. The product he bought isn't the product he expected. "Satisfaction" is far too abstract to govern something like commercial law concerning refunds.

Doesn't this pretty much sum the entire thread up?

You guys can argue all day whether or not my refund was justified. At the end of the day however, I was not satisfied with the product.

"

CharanJaydemyr wrote:

For quite a few of my friends, the game ended at Normal.

This is where your reasoning comes from, which is understandable to an extent. However some people like myself believe an 8-10 hour play-through is not worth $60 and is not what we had in mind when dropping $60 on Diablo 3.

Now if you take into consideration all of the major complaints of the game putting aside the unstable server issues you should at least acknowledge the fact that the majority of disappointment lies in Inferno.

This is where I am coming from as a disappointed customer. I am not one of your friends who gets a kick out of beating a Normal play-through that was boring at best considering the fact that there is no real challenge in Normal followed by pointless Nightmare which presents absolutely no challenge either. Honestly a child could play-through Normal and Nightmare by simply smashing their face against their keyboard.

If anything I found Normal to be a complete and utter waste of time if it weren't for the fact that I was watching all the cut-scenes and listening to the dialogue to keep me somewhat interested and even then the story was so poorly done well... let's just say that is a completely different matter at hand.

Again this is purely my opinion as a customer. You and Disillusioned have a different opinion and claim that basically a Normal play-through of Diablo 3 should be considered worthy of $60 and that is entirely your opinion.

The problem I see with you and Disillusioned's argument is that it is based purely based on opinion. As Flauros mentioned earlier I was not satisfied with their product. The key-word being "I" not "you", it is great that you and Disillusioned would consider yourselves satisfied and not ask for a refund because you played through Normal (and please don't even mention Nightmare and Hell anymore because honestly I didn't notice a single significant difference between the three).

What exactly is it that you and Disillusioned seek to accomplish here? You can't argue your way into stopping people from requesting refunds. If someone is disappointed with a product they are going to try and seek a solution to their disappointment. I am not the first person to request a refund, there is an entire country demanding refunds for the game, Diablo 3's official forums are flooded with refund threads and complaints, and there is from what I've heard a 3 day queue on phone support from all the hacking and refund complaints.

Many of the most telling red flags of Diablo 3 were only visible in hindsight, and so there is no way anyone could have recognized them until they were hit by them. My opinion of the game after playing it has been clearly posted for everyone to read and surely if you can understand why I not your "friends" was disappointed with the game you could understand my reasoning for a refund. If not, well that is a real shame but there is really nothing left to discuss here that isn't opinionated...

"

Disillusioned wrote:

But using your car analogy, D3 is not defective to the degree of lethality or as you're relating, to the degree of safety in regards to account security.

D3 server failures weren't as extreme as the exploding Pinto gas tanks, but the point still stands.

"

Disillusioned wrote:

I can reasonably see somebody purchasing the game, playing through Normal and maybe Nightmare and then deciding it is not what they were expecting. It is when you "beat" the game four times over, on all four difficulty settings, that it looks a little silly. If the expectation was that Inferno is not what was your idea of a hard difficulty setting then it should be noted that there was an update that discussed there were plans to change how the game was being played.

Sensible =/= legal or illegal.

"

Disillusioned wrote:

But the main point is, to say that a game that has been from one of the most popular video-game series and has not seen a sequel for over a decade and was not "the product that was expected" is in itself, something to be expected. D3 was not going to nail everything everybody wanted to see. There was even a post on the official forums that basically said that D3 is nowhere near a bad game but it won't be the game that will satisfy every individual fan on every level:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4063008863?page=2#36

It wasn't that the game contained surprises. The issue here is whether Blizzard knowingly sold a defective product, something the Korean Fair Trade Commission is looking into. The issue here would be breach of contract.

"

Disillusioned wrote:

I don't think it is from their servers.

So you have memorized the entire Blizzard code, and have figured out every single possible security hole, and determined that none of them have been abused?

"

Disillusioned wrote:

What we are being given is a list of anecdotal situations for people to base judgement off of. Now if I told you that I had a hundred hours on my main character, an authenticator, have played various public games, and have been using this laptop for the past four years and have not been hacked on the game does that convince anybody any? Likely not, because most people will see the number of people that have been hacked and disregard my defense.

What that would imply is that you had not been hacked, and nothing else.

"

Disillusioned wrote:

But what is being forgotten is that D3 has sold *a lot* of copies. Somewhere in the range of five million or more so far? Now let's say there has been about one thousand cases so far of compromised accounts, that is a nearly insignificant amount when compared to the majority.

Even if just a few people got hacked due to a server problem, and not user error, it's still Blizzards responsibility to deal with that security hole.

"

Disillusioned wrote:

Now I would not completely rule out that possibility, but the fact is there has been no proof of it happening.

Oh really?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73zKs8JvpRE
http://www.geezergaming.com/main/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=74&id=26051&Itemid=177
http://forums.gametrailers.com/thread/diablo-3-account-just-got-hack/1290145?page=4
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5150111005
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-05-21-diablo-3-accounts-hacked-gold-and-items-stolen

"

Disillusioned wrote:

If half the number of people that bought the game were getting hacked then this would be evident that there was something very wrong.

See above links, as well as the metacritic site.

"

Disillusioned wrote:

To my knowledge, many people have yet to hit max level/Inferno difficulty so it is possible that many people have not played public games (yet there have been reports of being hacked despite only playing alone, but I digress). When the rest of them catch up and teaming up to take on Inferno becomes much more attractive, we'll see then. However, as somebody that hit max level in three days and has been playing public games since, I can tell you from my experience nothing has happened.

I never ran into the shield charge bug in D2. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

"

Disillusioned wrote:

And then there are the variables to consider. Is it the right authenticator? Did you even activate it to ask everytime you log in? Do you use the same password that may have been compromised on something else before?

If they can bypass the authenticator, then that is all irrelevant.

"

Disillusioned wrote:

My view on the hacking thing is that it is a few people that simply do not want to take responsibility for their actions.

Say psychic one, can you tell me what this weeks winning lotto numbers are?

"

D3 server failures weren't as extreme as the exploding Pinto gas tanks, but the point still stands.

So it was a false analogy?

"

It wasn't that the game contained surprises. The issue here is whether Blizzard knowingly sold a defective product, something the Korean Fair Trade Commission is looking into. The issue here would be breach of contract.

Now, I have not been keeping up with what is happening with Korean servers but the Diablo III I have alt-tabbed at the moment is working as intended for me. There may be some flaws with the gameplay, but from what I can see those will be addressed and given Blizzard's history of supporting their games well past release I have no reason to doubt it.

"

Oh really?

The first video states that they have ordered Authenticators, which, unfortunately, have not arrived yet.

The second link is a standard, "I got hacked" thread.

The third is much of the same, along with speculation on session spoofing.

The fourth, again, has no traces of an authenticator being added.

The fifth clearly states that Christian Donlan did not have an authenticator added to the account.

The speculation on session spoofing, which would happen from joining public games, contradicts the YouTube video as they said that they never joined a public game. It is very possible that even sites they believed were safe had some sort of malicious software placed in it.

I recall a few years ago, the WoW Wiki had a keylogger placed on there which caused all sorts of panic.

"

If they can bypass the authenticator, then that is all irrelevant.

But there are no cases of this happening with D3. If hackers could bypass the Authenticator, what is stopping them from affecting a larger number of people? It simply does not add up.

Just think about it: all these accounts have had no proof of having an authenticator, we only have their "word" that they never once had malware on their computer. How flawed is it to say that it must be Blizzard's fault for their own negligence?

"

Disillusioned wrote:

So it was a false analogy?

Not at all. Even if a vast majority of Pinto owners never had a gas tank explode on them doesn't mean that it wasn't a problem.

"

Disillusioned wrote:

Now, I have not been keeping up with what is happening with Korean servers but the Diablo III I have alt-tabbed at the moment is working as intended for me. There may be some flaws with the gameplay, but from what I can see those will be addressed and given Blizzard's history of supporting their games well past release I have no reason to doubt it.

I haven't had this problem =/= other people haven't had this problem.

"

Disillusioned wrote:

But there are no cases of this happening with D3. If hackers could bypass the Authenticator, what is stopping them from affecting a larger number of people? It simply does not add up.

You seem to just "know" that a small number of people are affected, that there are no cases of the authenticator being bypassed, and that they all were suffering from malware. From where do you get this knowledge? I notice you neatly sidestepped any mention of hacking methods that bypass the authenticator.

"

Disillusioned wrote:

Just think about it: all these accounts have had no proof of having an authenticator, we only have their "word" that they never once had malware on their computer.

The sheer number of reports from a variety of sources says otherwise. And as a customer, I tend to trust other customers more than I trust corporations and their shills.

"

Disillusioned wrote:

How flawed is it to say that it must be Blizzard's fault for their own negligence?

I am sorry, but when Blizzard plays blame the victim, denies any fault or error, and then asks for additional money for security they should have provided my response is an unequivocal FUCK YOU!

"

Not at all. Even if a vast majority of Pinto owners never had a gas tank explode on them doesn't mean that it wasn't a problem.

But do you not think the main property you were taking there (the defectiveness of the product which risked a driver's health) is a little silly to compare to a video-game with some launch problems and phantom security breaches?

"

I haven't had this problem =/= other people haven't had this problem.

We're talking about the game itself and the security issues that have been alleged, are we not? The Korean servers suffering what looks similar to launch problems and being unable to log into the game is very unfortunate and I hope that they get fixed soon. I highly doubt they will simply leave the servers over there in that state.

"

You seem to just "know" that a small number of people are affected, that there are no cases of the authenticator being bypassed, and that they all were suffering from malware. From where do you get this knowledge? I notice you neatly sidestepped any mention of hacking methods that bypass the authenticator.

If this were as rampant as some people may think, then it would be a little more prominent and have greater outcry from the millions affected.

There was no real sidestepping. Many of the methods you listed are from user end error rather than from the company having had their servers completely breached. While I do not exactly deny that they can be bypassed, I do not think Blizzard is at fault here which is what you're suggesting.

"

The sheer number of reports from a variety of sources says otherwise. And as a customer, I tend to trust other customers more than I trust corporations and their shills.

The sheer number of people that have not been compromised makes me trust that in this case, the company is not being duplicitous in any way.

"

I am sorry, but when Blizzard plays blame the victim, denies any fault or error, and then asks for additional money for security they should have provided my response is an unequivocal FUCK YOU!

The money is for the physical Authenticator, the app for smartphones is free. And to take the opposite of your stance, but when the "victim" cannot admit that maybe they should not have torrented from Pirate Bay or not been to some dominatrix porn site, they instead blame the "tyrannical" corporation then I roll my eyes and dismiss them.

The "victim" expects too much and I quite honestly dislike people that want others to do things for them rather than taking a little initiative themselves.

Going to have to agree with Disillusioned on this one. There is no actual evidence that anyone is getting hacked through some security breach in Battle.net's security network. Any further discussion on this "hacking" that is supposedly taking place via an in-game exploit is simply speculation.

"

Disillusioned wrote:

But do you not think the main property you were taking there (the defectiveness of the product which risked a driver's health) is a little silly to compare to a video-game with some launch problems and phantom security breaches?

In this case, as security breach could lead to theft of credit card data.

"

Disillusioned wrote:

We're talking about the game itself and the security issues that have been alleged, are we not? The Korean servers suffering what looks similar to launch problems and being unable to log into the game is very unfortunate and I hope that they get fixed soon. I highly doubt they will simply leave the servers over there in that state.

Especially since they are being investigated for violating trade law.

"

Disillusioned wrote:

If this were as rampant as some people may think, then it would be a little more prominent and have greater outcry from the millions affected.

There has been a tremendous outcry.

"

Disillusioned wrote:

There was no real sidestepping. Many of the methods you listed are from user end error rather than from the company having had their servers completely breached.

Well you are just plain wrong here. Man in the middle attacks don't usually require either user error or a complete security breach. Viruses can be so well hidden as to avoid detection by even trained IT personnel. And rogue employees can circumvent any security measures you implement.

"

Disillusioned wrote:

While I do not exactly deny that they can be bypassed, I do not think Blizzard is at fault here which is what you're suggesting.

D3 is suffering from a series of problems. How can you say that Blizzard is at fault for none of them? (Error 37, templar shield bug, game won't install for some people, etc.)

"

Disillusioned wrote:

The sheer number of people that have not been compromised makes me trust that in this case, the company is not being duplicitous in any way.

Most Pintos didn't have their gas tanks explode; that doesn't mean that Ford didn't know about the ones that did.

"

Disillusioned wrote:

The money is for the physical Authenticator, the app for smartphones is free. And to take the opposite of your stance, but when the "victim" cannot admit that maybe they should not have torrented from Pirate Bay or not been to some dominatrix porn site, they instead blame the "tyrannical" corporation then I roll my eyes and dismiss them.

Because you personally know each and every hacking victim and know that each and every one was suffering from a virus. Gobshitte.

"

Disillusioned wrote:

The "victim" expects too much and I quite honestly dislike people that want others to do things for them rather than taking a little initiative themselves.

I know, it's like for $60, they expected a working product or something like that.

"

EvilMoogle wrote:

Going to have to agree with Disillusioned on this one. There is no actual evidence that anyone is getting hacked through some security breach in Battle.net's security network. Any further discussion on this "hacking" that is supposedly taking place via an in-game exploit is simply speculation.

There is no proof, but Blizzard is acting like Sony did just before it came out that they were hacked, including declaring that they weren't hacked.

"

Flauros wrote:

There is no proof, but Blizzard is acting like Sony did just before it came out that they were hacked, including declaring that they weren't hacked.

Without any proof this is only speculation.

People have been getting hacked for quite sometime now in WoW... What makes Diablo 3 so special?

Give me reason to believe Diablo 3's case is different than WoW's case and we can actually further a discussion on this.

I really hate to repeat myself, but honestly without any proof this is all just speculation.

This is probably just a fad that is sweeping the internet right now. I could have easily made a thread on the D3 forums and said I was hacked and I would get like 20 pages worth of replies. It is very easy to troll the D3 forums right now with this "hacking" phenomenon.

I will admit there is an increasing amount of "hacked" reports that does interest me... However there are also lots of reported cases of alien spaceships being caught on camera and other witness reports of bigfoot. Until there is any actual proof that aliens or bigfoot exist we can only speculate.

You really shouldn't let your interest get in the way of your judgement. I would love if Blizzard attempted some massive cover-up of a security breach in their system that jeopardized millions of accounts, that would be all over the news. Sometimes things really are just as they appear.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-YKekEpFvs

Athene trolled thousands of viewers and seriously had them going for hours. People buy into this stuff, people want to see the big guys go down and by that I mean Blizzard as much as I mean Athene. The moment something tragic happens to Blizzard people will be all over that shit. The moment Athene got "hacked" his stream viewer count was increasing at a ridiculous rate it was unbelievable how many people were flocking to this "tragic" event. Same applies to all these "hacked" threads, "hacked" articles being written my shitty reporters who need some attention.

"

In this case, as security breach could lead to theft of credit card data.

I'm aware there is an option to download the game through digital means, but if there is a security breach on Blizzard's servers has there been a case of someone's credit card data being compromised? The last huge outrage I remember was the PSN servers going down for nearly a month last year, yet I have yet to hear anything from Blizzard's end.

"

There has been a tremendous outcry.

We have different definitions on the word, "tremendous." What you see as large, I see as minimal.

"

Well you are just plain wrong here. Man in the middle attacks don't usually require either user error or a complete security breach. Viruses can be so well hidden as to avoid detection by even trained IT personnel. And rogue employees can circumvent any security measures you implement.

How do you get these sorts of computer "infections?" You're in a place you should not be, or click something you should not click. If you know the possible turmoil that could erupt from this, then you truly reap what you sow. If you accidentally click something, you made an error. Viruses do not suddenly spawn from nowhere. Not to cause anybody reading to become paranoid, but you'd be surprised in where they can manifest.

"

D3 is suffering from a series of problems. How can you say that Blizzard is at fault for none of them? (Error 37, templar shield bug, game won't install for some people, etc.)

You are bringing in a lot more than a, "Security breach" now. The nexus of your problem in your prior posts and even now seems to be about that. While I cannot speak on the last problem listed, the other two for North America at least, have been corrected as far as I can tell.

"

Most Pintos didn't have their gas tanks explode; that doesn't mean that Ford didn't know about the ones that did.

Blizzard has told people that the problem is not on their end, but that their accounts are being compromised through "traditional" means and a simple addition of an Authenticator would diminish the chance dramatically - if not outright deny it from happening.

You're condemning them a little blindly, don't you think? Why in the world would their next cash cow (with the RMAH) be shipped with the possibilities of having their company's reputation on edge due to exploitable servers? Blizzard is maybe a lot of things to many people these days, but you cannot say they're woefully incompetent. Releasing a game with one of the main draws for the customer and the company being made invalid is asinine.

"

Because you personally know each and every hacking victim and know that each and every one was suffering from a virus. Gobshitte.

I never said that, but I do know that to get malware in the first place it is many times on sites that you should browse very carefully through. It is fairly obvious that to keep your information safe, play it safe.

"

I know, it's like for $60, they expected a working product or something like that.

The product does work. It works for many people that have bought the game and though there are still some hiccups in other parts of the world, they are being addressed.

"

The moment something tragic happens to Blizzard people will be all over that shit.

This is true as well. I'm not as huge of a gamer as I was in my teenage years, but there seems to be a lot of hatred towards popular gaming companies these days. Blizzard in particular seems to be hated due to being related to Activision now and any problem (even those expected such as launch day lag/disconnects) is magnified to being this grand conspiracy/atrocity.

While I'm not the same Blizzard fan as I used to be, it is ridiculous to be bullheaded about it all. To be fair, I've gained more respect for them for handling this as well as they have because many other companies would have representatives that literally crack.

I'd even dare say that the hatred they're taking is suddenly things that were wanted now being backpedaled. Players wanted the focus *off* from runewords and unique items being the goal. Blizzard made rares/magic items as good if not better than those (a little too good, admittedly) for the sake of replayability. Players wanted the rest of the game to mean something rather than being a bunch of boss runs which made the rest of the game useless. So they made rare packs that spawn anywhere but scripted events to encourage exploration. Players hated bot spam and third party sites. Blizzard made an authorized way to buy items through their own interface and kill these sites off, dealing with two plagued crows with one stone. Players wanted more difficulty like Uber Tristram. They got Inferno mode.

There are other examples, but despite this people still hate senselessly. I will be the first in line to say that there is wrong with the game. Colour me a dastardly casual, but I think Inferno is a little too much to handle. That's one example.

But overall? It's, and don't hang me, probably the most fun ARPG I've played in a long time. Since LOD, in fact. There are still great ARPGs out there, but D3 surprised me in so many ways that I was elated to be proven wrong. I'm ecstatic for the future of the game through patch and expansion, because there is a lot that can be done.