Debunking the idea that Orbs are in any way superior to Gold

What will be your solution when we have an open beta sized community?

There's already a ton of people that spam 3-4 lines of gold items trying to sell items that make chat nearly unreadable.

You could say, "oh well just make a separate trade chat" but that doesn't solve the problem at all, because trade chat will still be impossible to follow because it will have a hundred or more people trying to sell all their gear creating a giant wall of constant spam that no one will be able to keep up with.

That will end up with suggestions for item link limits or chat line limits which will screw with regular conversation or create people that spam a few items over more total lines than before.

So where do you go with it?
What is the solution when the population increases?
If there's no auction house how is this going to be controlled?

"

ShadowsCrush wrote:

What will be your solution when we have an open beta sized community?

There's already a ton of people that spam 3-4 lines of gold items trying to sell items that make chat nearly unreadable.

You could say, "oh well just make a separate trade chat" but that doesn't solve the problem at all, because trade chat will still be impossible to follow because it will have a hundred or more people trying to sell all their gear creating a giant wall of constant spam that no one will be able to keep up with.

That will end up with suggestions for item link limits or chat line limits which will screw with regular conversation or create people that spam a few items over more total lines than before.

So where do you go with it?
What is the solution when the population increases?
If there's no auction house how is this going to be controlled?

Most of that is caused by people trying to sell items that have no real value, have an AH full of items that nobody buys doesn't seem to be a necessity.

I think an easy fix is to allow people to link there stashes on the forums. You could then browse their wares and offer a trade.

I used to play Anarchy Online years ago, no AH in that game, all the trades went through the forums. People sold highly valuable items in trade chat, or crafting materials (things they knew people needed) but they didn't spam the chat incessantly with every magical item that came their way.

The implementation of the AH that I'd love to see would be an alternative for vendor selling. Just put an item up on the board (searchable by base type and possibly mods) and after a certain amount of time either accept whichever offer you like that has been placed against it or sell it to Gruest.

Ex.
I have a "Foo Bar", 2h sword of a moderately high level base type and over 100 ied with some ias. I know it's not worthless, it's fairly strong but not something I'd hold in my stash for a week to get the highest price.

I put it up in the AH and leave it there for an hour.

When I look back, I see:
"Foo Bar" (5 mins. remaining)
- 1 alchemy orb from xXx420w33dkillaXxX
- 1 fusing orb from Derpstronomy
- 20 alterations from ManBearPig
- 5 augmentation, 1 scour from HadoGai
X sell to Gruest for 1 alteration

And just pick the offer that fits my current needs the most (like right now I'd take the fusing since I'm trying to get a 5L, or possibly the alts to start crafting up a base 62 armor). I don't have to spam chat and people can search for the things they need without resorting to a linear search through chat OR the forums.

With or without trade, GGG need to devise a better way of segregating the chat.

Going with a technique that's proven to work, I'd suggest a solution along the lines of chat channels à la IRC.

As for trading, I think searchable vendor shops would be fine (after all that is essentially what I was planning to write as a 3rd-party tool).

The most important part is that the trade itself MUST NOT be automated.

The trade system can do everything else involved in match-making a trade (searching, negotiating on price, messaging to arrange meet-ups, etc etc), but the trade itself MUST be performed 'face to face'.

Not only does this 'face to face' meeting dramatically slow down trade, it also creates the opportunity for dialogue between vendor & customer.
From dialogue comes conversation, friendships, and community.

"

ShadowsCrush wrote:

What will be your solution when we have an open beta sized community?

There's already a ton of people that spam 3-4 lines of gold items trying to sell items that make chat nearly unreadable.

You could say, "oh well just make a separate trade chat" but that doesn't solve the problem at all, because trade chat will still be impossible to follow because it will have a hundred or more people trying to sell all their gear creating a giant wall of constant spam that no one will be able to keep up with.

That will end up with suggestions for item link limits or chat line limits which will screw with regular conversation or create people that spam a few items over more total lines than before.

So where do you go with it?
What is the solution when the population increases?
If there's no auction house how is this going to be controlled?

Well, if they end up integrating trade with the website then the forum and such may be a better place to trade than spamming chat.

Just add a trade chat.

I like your angle TJJ.

Not so sure about chats. But it's fine, as long as I can mute it.
Browsing others sale-stash could be fun, perhaps I could send a trades request, like with friends requests.
Prices could be a written note on the objects..


Anyways, I think the subject been drifting somewhat.

I like the orbs because I can make items from them and change items.
Like d2 gambling, but more controlled. A bit like crafting.

They can, at this point, be found early in the game. Which I think is fun, rewarding and exciting.
Beats running about like a headless chicken for 12 gold.
Instead, I get valuable items right from the start, which if noone else values them or I don't want to trade, is valuable to myself since I can use them.

Since they have their own function, their accumulation will dissipate from the system, creating a good wealth-sink.
This could be duplicated with gold, but like this, it is more intuitive.
My supply with orbs are rather finite in this aspect, while if currency were used I could concentrate my efforts on one particular task, thus devaluing other, less attractive tasks.
With the orbs, I got what I got and need to work with that.

D1 had gold as objects (Sometimes vendors sold items which could not be bought since it was not possible to carry such an amount in the inventory) and the orbs are also an object.
An object is in itself more interesting than an abstraction, like a number indicating wealth.

Since the orbs are several different items, they enhance bartering.


I think they should be even more tinkerable, both as craftings and as vendortrades.
Perhaps rarity should be displayed on orbs and gems, so people knew more what they got. Might be counterintuitive though.

All in all I'd say while not solving world inflation, orbs do enrich the gaming experience.

"

TJJ wrote:

Diablo 3 is the perfect example of why an AH breaks what is the fundamental principle of an action-RPG; playing for the loot drops.

I really dont understand this idea that gets floated around these forums. For a start lets get what the developers of D3 said right.

They said that the AH was one of many 'factors' when tuning the loot drops. It wasn't like it was entirely governed by the AH or even significantly different. It was just something they considered when making the game.

Indeed if anything the slightly mean drop rates in D3 make it actually much more exciting when I do find interesting or quality items. On the one hand you say ARPGs are about finding loot (and your right) and yet on the other you want a system that just throws loads of items at you where quality becomes meaningless.

You say you dont want grind... hello?? ARPGs are basically the king of grind games, all you do is grind. You grind levels, you grind loot, ad infinitum without any real purpose.

Take my time in POE, I had so many rare items it became ludicrous, it almost became mundane finding them. In D3 I prefer the loot ratio, when I find a rare its a moment of brief hope, and when it does turn out to be good its a keeper for ages rather than a throwaway item which will be replaced in a level or twos time.

Finally to address another point. Just dont use the AH or trades if you feel they cheapen the experience. I have sold a few items in D3, but Id NEVER buy anything, it defeats the object. But I totally appreciate that not everyone plays like that and having a sensible and easy to use trade system is a welcome thing.

Sometimes being old skool and obtuse is NOT cool... POEs approach to trade and economy is one of those times imo

"

RodHull wrote:

Sometimes being old skool and obtuse is NOT cool... POEs approach to trade and economy is one of those times imo

Just wanted to reply to this part. You have no idea what GGG has planned for their trade features. We can probably assume it will not be anything as large or game-breaking as the D3 auctionhouse but it will serve its purpose.

iirc from a streaming interview with Chris, there were plans for a trading system through the website, so you don't even have to be in game to trade.

As for AH ideas, I like pnuemos ;

"

The implementation of the AH that I'd love to see would be an alternative for vendor selling. Just put an item up on the board (searchable by base type and possibly mods) and after a certain amount of time either accept whichever offer you like that has been placed against it or sell it to Gruest.

Ex.
I have a "Foo Bar", 2h sword of a moderately high level base type and over 100 ied with some ias. I know it's not worthless, it's fairly strong but not something I'd hold in my stash for a week to get the highest price.

I put it up in the AH and leave it there for an hour.

When I look back, I see:
"Foo Bar" (5 mins. remaining)
- 1 alchemy orb from xXx420w33dkillaXxX
- 1 fusing orb from Derpstronomy
- 20 alterations from ManBearPig
- 5 augmentation, 1 scour from HadoGai
X sell to Gruest for 1 alteration