Debunking the idea that Orbs are in any way superior to Gold

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Xapti wrote:

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anubite wrote:

Gold/money in an MMO is only going to work when you have NPCs that sell you valuable things

You said a bunch of rather worthless 9or maybe even kinda misleading) things. The post can be pretty much summed up by this one accurate sentence.

If PoE was to use gold — guess what the gold sinks would be... NPCs and perform the identical behavior as orbs perform.

That's the problem with so many games; it's not that they use gold, it's that they have a lack of usefulness of the gold and/or don't make gold properly rare enough or adjust values properly.

I agree with you, and i think a solution of the gold thing (dunno talk of this game since it lacks of it) is that the gold lacks of real importance

BUT, what happen when the gold is really not come easy? like, well to get gold you have to really work for it, for the first: monsters doesnt drop gold...
Give a gold an important place, not something you can just use it to farm, idk, taxes in game for having big ammounts of it for a certine time? or things like that?

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TJJ wrote:

Gold is a homogeneous currency, it hastens trade.
Orbs are a heterogeneous currency, they slow trade.


- The slower the speed of trade (i.e. the rate it takes for an idle item to find a useful purpose), the more storage space is required by traders.

- As storage space is finite(and increasing it generates revenue for GGG), a slow economy will inevitably increase waste.(i.e. items not being picked up, or being vendored for nominal values).

- Knowing the economy is slow and wasteful GGG can tune the loot system to be more generous than it might otherwise be.

- As people play games like PoE for the loot, a generous loot system increases the apparent fun of the game.

- People play games for fun, game succeeds -> more revenue for GGG.

This is pretty much the impact on the economy that I feel as I play PoE. Trade is VERY slow; for most of my chars, I pretty much rely on self-found loot up to the late game. My inventory stash is, as the above predicted, full of loot lying around waiting to be utilized. I always had a sneaking suspicion that GGG deliberately intends this so more people will use the cash shop to buy additional inventory tabs.

On the other hand, I'm not sure how much the small pool of players is affecting the velocity of trade. Hardcore trade definitely feels this influence, not so sure about Default so much.

Both the current loot system and the current trade system benefit greedy players that have no regard for respectful game play.

A typical trade chat in POE:
I whisper "how much for that 8% quality sweep"?
MR RIPOFF " 7 gcps"
I whisper "I'm not a newb jackass"

Trading in POE is tedious and irritating. If I do get lucky and find a person with an item I need chances are he needs an item I don't have. I feel that the current system is a step back from most trade systems implemented in modern games today.

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bilbobeastlybaggins wrote:

Both the current loot system and the current trade system benefit greedy players that have no regard for respectful game play.

A typical trade chat in POE:
I whisper "how much for that 8% quality sweep"?
MR RIPOFF " 7 gcps"
I whisper "I'm not a newb jackass"

Trading in POE is tedious and irritating. If I do get lucky and find a person with an item I need chances are he needs an item I don't have. I feel that the current system is a step back from most trade systems implemented in modern games today.

I whisper "how much for that 8% quality sweep?"
MR RIPOFF "200,000,000 gold"
I whisper "I'm not a newb jackass"

People will try to screw you in any system, that's part of trading in the first place. You aren't dealing with Walmart who wants your repeat business.

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Sekein wrote:

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TJJ wrote:

- As people play games like PoE for the loot, a generous loot system increases the apparent fun of the game.

- People play games for fun, game succeeds -> more revenue for GGG.

This is pretty much the impact on the economy that I feel as I play PoE. Trade is VERY slow; for most of my chars, I pretty much rely on self-found loot up to the late game. My inventory stash is, as the above predicted, full of loot lying around waiting to be utilized. I always had a sneaking suspicion that GGG deliberately intends this so more people will use the cash shop to buy additional inventory tabs.

Considering that in open beta you'll be able to have as many accounts and thus as much stash space for free as you want, I hardly believe that theory.

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I like it that trade is hard in this game. Just look at Diablo 3 and the impact the AH had on drop rates of gear. As the developers themselves have stated, they had to lower the drop chance and rate for good gear else an oversupply through the AH would have made getting good gear too easy.

This means that the chance for finding good gear for yourselves without using the AH is very low and personally I hate that.

Thus I really hope that GGG will make trading secure (via direct trade through players) but not too easy and especially not automated (like an AH would). Imo it only hurts the game to have trade too plentiful. Sometimes the effectiveness of free trade is a bad thing, especially in games where the fun of finding loot is often proportional to scarcity.

Managing mule accounts will be a pain though, and it's perfectly possible for GGG to impose restrictions to prevent* multiple accounts.
(*or at the very least inconvenience them)

Of course you can always have mule characters hosted on the same account.... but the benefit is negligible.

As a slight aside, multiple accts is ok? For some reason, I thought this was against the rules.

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Wittgenstein wrote:

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bilbobeastlybaggins wrote:

Both the current loot system and the current trade system benefit greedy players that have no regard for respectful game play.

A typical trade chat in POE:
I whisper "how much for that 8% quality sweep"?
MR RIPOFF " 7 gcps"
I whisper "I'm not a newb jackass"

Trading in POE is tedious and irritating. If I do get lucky and find a person with an item I need chances are he needs an item I don't have. I feel that the current system is a step back from most trade systems implemented in modern games today.

I whisper "how much for that 8% quality sweep?"
MR RIPOFF "200,000,000 gold"
I whisper "I'm not a newb jackass"

People will try to screw you in any system, that's part of trading in the first place. You aren't dealing with Walmart who wants your repeat business.

I kinda forgot to state that this game needs an auction house which is the real reason behind my rant.

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bilbobeastlybaggins wrote:

"

Wittgenstein wrote:

"

bilbobeastlybaggins wrote:

Both the current loot system and the current trade system benefit greedy players that have no regard for respectful game play.

A typical trade chat in POE:
I whisper "how much for that 8% quality sweep"?
MR RIPOFF " 7 gcps"
I whisper "I'm not a newb jackass"

Trading in POE is tedious and irritating. If I do get lucky and find a person with an item I need chances are he needs an item I don't have. I feel that the current system is a step back from most trade systems implemented in modern games today.

I whisper "how much for that 8% quality sweep?"
MR RIPOFF "200,000,000 gold"
I whisper "I'm not a newb jackass"

People will try to screw you in any system, that's part of trading in the first place. You aren't dealing with Walmart who wants your repeat business.

I kinda forgot to state that this game needs an auction house which is the real reason behind my rant.

No, no, no!!

As already pointed out by multiple people:

- An AH makes trade much easier
- more trade means a more efficient item economy
- a more efficient item economy has one of two results (both bad).

1) The drop rates of items have to be reduced appropriately to ensure the longevity of the market. Low drop rates create a horribly unrewarding, and ultimately boring grinding experience.

OR

2) The longevity of the market (and thus the game) is dramatically shortened.


Diablo 3 is the perfect example of why an AH breaks what is the fundamental principle of an action-RPG; playing for the loot drops.

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bilbobeastlybaggins wrote:

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Wittgenstein wrote:

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bilbobeastlybaggins wrote:

Both the current loot system and the current trade system benefit greedy players that have no regard for respectful game play.

A typical trade chat in POE:
I whisper "how much for that 8% quality sweep"?
MR RIPOFF " 7 gcps"
I whisper "I'm not a newb jackass"

Trading in POE is tedious and irritating. If I do get lucky and find a person with an item I need chances are he needs an item I don't have. I feel that the current system is a step back from most trade systems implemented in modern games today.

I whisper "how much for that 8% quality sweep?"
MR RIPOFF "200,000,000 gold"
I whisper "I'm not a newb jackass"

People will try to screw you in any system, that's part of trading in the first place. You aren't dealing with Walmart who wants your repeat business.

I kinda forgot to state that this game needs an auction house which is the real reason behind my rant.

No....just NO. It killed Diablo, for me anyways.

Unless you're being sarcastic then yes, i agree with you :P