[April 12] Initial Development Manifesto Feedback

Can someone explain me why some people (many supporters) are making 1000 line posts about the FFA/NON-FFA parties ? It just create space for people who don't like and also who CAN'T COMPETE ACTUALLY, because mainly of lag/desync issues.
People who promote FFA as a religion will still have room for FFA parties, so why so much lines ? How creating a non FFA modes is such a betrayal, what so terrible about that ?

To me the problem with desync is the potential massive amounts of damage that monsters are able to deal to a single player in milliseconds of time. Desync would not be such a huge issue if the amount of damage dealt could be better adjusted. To explain better perhaps... so if I am soloing and I enter a new zone say the Cross Roads for instance, why is it even possible for that zone to spawn with potential groups of 10-12 (blue) archers traveling in pack with 1-2 (yellow) archers resulting in a mob that if even a portion deal a crit hit simultaneously snuff me before I have time to react in the event of any desync? The fix to me on the surface seems simple... reduce (better adjust) the mob sizes according to the group size entering the zone... increase the drop rates slightly so as to not nerf the wealth... yes the overall difficulty may go down a bit but enjoyment would go up significantly. In the end is it about making a game that is as hard as it can be to play to appease hardcore gamers or balancing this better for all types of players? This balance approach would not need to be implemented in all play modes and could be restricted to Default mode. Hardcore's could be given the option of playing in a mode where the mobs are 200% stronger if they like that sort of thing to make them happy and the rest of us need not deal with such things as Desync death, nerfed wealth etc... etc.

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4phex wrote:

Can someone explain me why some people (many supporters) are making 1000 line posts about the FFA/NON-FFA parties ? It just create space for people who don't like and also who CAN'T COMPETE ACTUALLY, because mainly of lag/desync issues.
People who promote FFA as a religion will still have room for FFA parties, so why so much lines ? How creating a non FFA modes is such a betrayal, what so terrible about that ?

Many of us are here because the game mechanics are similar to D2 - loot competition being the primary one.

I'm one of those people who hated the loot system in D3, so you could say I'm one of the ffa promoters, but religion? give me a break. it’s more like a game element that is exciting and keep people playing at a fast pace.

The loot system in PoE now is a hybrid with a timer, so it’s more fair but still has some of the ffa elements. The FFA system in PoE has been under attack for a long time and it looks like with options it will be mostly go ununsed, so some people are upset.

personally I dont care that much, lots of other games out there and its not worth agruing about.

Very interesting post on desync and rubber-banding. Diablo3 has similar rubbern-banding issues, but I do not recall them in D2. However, in neither of these games could player attacks miss, making action prediction that much simpler.

Before any technical questions, my first question is this - how much does chance to hit add to the actual gameplay and is it worth the trade-off? This is only on player characters, monster %hit is much easier to deal with in practice. This is for everyone to decide for themselves, but to me personally, the concept of accuracy does not contribute much to my in-game experience and the lack thereof would not detract from the hardcore feel of the game. It is inherently just another stat to worry about that you always have to keep as "good enough".

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Many of us are here because the game mechanics are similar to D2 - loot competition being the primary one.

I'm one of those people who hated the loot system in D3, so you could say I'm one of the ffa promoters, but religion? give me a break. it’s more like a game element that is exciting and keep people playing at a fast pace.

The loot system in PoE now is a hybrid with a timer, so it’s more fair but still has some of the ffa elements. The FFA system in PoE has been under attack for a long time and it looks like with options it will be mostly go ununsed, so some people are upset.

personally I dont care that much, lots of other games out there and its not worth agruing about.

First thanks for your answer. Next the thing I still don't understand is why FFA will disappear with this ? I mean if many people promote the FFA it should not disappear, unless they change their mind and go carebear party. But I understand your point of view as a root feature of this game is been modified to please some people, people who arn't part of the root/core gamers that play POE since the beggining.

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4phex wrote:

Can someone explain me why some people (many supporters) are making 1000 line posts about the FFA/NON-FFA parties ? It just create space for people who don't like and also who CAN'T COMPETE ACTUALLY, because mainly of lag/desync issues.
People who promote FFA as a religion will still have room for FFA parties, so why so much lines ? How creating a non FFA modes is such a betrayal, what so terrible about that ?

Many of us are here because the game mechanics are similar to D2 - loot competition being the primary one.

I'm one of those people who hated the loot system in D3, so you could say I'm one of the ffa promoters, but religion? give me a break. it’s more like a game element that is exciting and keep people playing at a fast pace.

The loot system in PoE now is a hybrid with a timer, so it’s more fair but still has some of the ffa elements. The FFA system in PoE has been under attack for a long time and it looks like with options it will be mostly go ununsed, so some people are upset.

personally I dont care that much, lots of other games out there and its not worth agruing about.

The problem is that you need to find some compromise in order to attract a wider audience, if that is the goal of the game. Although it being f2p is a huge attraction factor.

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4phex wrote:

First thanks for your answer. Next the thing I still don't understand is why FFA will disappear with this ? I mean if many people promote the FFA it should not disappear, unless they change their mind and go carebear party. But I understand your point of view as a root feature of this game is been modified to please some people, people who arn't part of the root/core gamers that play POE since the beggining.

Welcome!

We do not know what will happen yet, there are many ways GGG could implement it, making it hard to predict. But for the most part from what I understand of the arguments is that ffa as a game mechanic only works if it’s an unavoidable. Just like how HC players join a league and only compete with other HC’s. People who just want to compete for everyone else’s items will play FFA and people who play friendly and cooperatively will use the long timer.

Personally, I like to play cooperatively but hate long timers so at least for some people then it’s potentially a lose/lose from the current system.

The other argument is that the game is easier with very long timers, since you do not need to pick up loot in the middle of fighting and that will cause almost everyone in HC to go with this slow mode.

I’m not sure if there are any games like this that use options. Anyone know? I’m aware of WoW having some settings but they are not like a timer control that GGG is proposing.

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TommiHelm wrote:

So which of the 3 versions did Diablo 2 use? Cause I never once in tens of thousands of hours of gameplay in that game experience anything remotely similar to desync in PoE.

Your argument is that it means people can cheat. But if that option is the only one that will remove desync completely why not do it and focus your efforts on detecting and preventing cheating instead.

The only thing keeping this game from grabbing the same hold on me that Diablo 2 did (and in fact still does) for more than a decade is the networking code, but tbh the desync post gave me the feeling you've already given up on the issue, "it'll always be there all we can do is make it less apparent" kind of. Which really makes me lose interest even more than I have the last couple of months. In fact I've spent more hours in Diablo 2 than in PoE the last 2 months. *sadface*

QFT

pls implement this pvp system on development manifesto quicker, cause high lv player like me really wish to see other content beside of mapping, most my friend that was high level player retired from the game cause run out of high lv map to play and no other contect that can satisfy them

Hey GGG,

How about adding armour reduction as physical damage's on-hit effect? Like, percentage or flat armour reduction, dependent on how much physical damage is dealt, and for a period of time dependent on how much phys dmg was dealt.