[April 12] Initial Development Manifesto Feedback

RE:

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Chris wrote:

we are currently planning to add several modes for Loot Allocation in parties: Full Free-for-all, something close to the current system, and a mode with longer allocation duration for people who don't want to deal with item tension.

Games by their very definition are set-ups for conflict that evoke emotions, NOT to make everyone happy, winners and losers based on skill are often primary ingredients. FUN is overcoming obstacles NOT the lack of obstacles.

Giving people the choice to opt out of a difficult game mechanic is the dumbest thing GGG could possibly do. I’m still 100% convinced.

Instanced loot WAS the fatal flaw in D3, and the reason why it will never compare to D2.

When I said I played D2 for ten years what I meant was that every reset I would go back and play HC ladders, either until my character died or I got bored and sick of the rune dupes (usually before hitting lv 92-93) Why? Why go back to such an old game when there are thousands of others to choose from?

Because it was in fact, still goddamn fun. Every season I would see old acquaintances appearing on my friends list and some of the best gaming around would ensue. PoE for many of us has captured what D2 had, and more. I would argue that ultimately it was about loot, the loot competition, and friendly pacts to share loot and beat the system.

So what is fun? What is this ‘evoking of emotions’? First, you need to understand something important. CONTRAST: Simply put, gain is not rewarding unless there is also loss or the potential of loss. Defeating a difficult foe means nothing unless there was some risk involved; the same principal applies to loot. These things cannot be separated and still have the same value. (also the same in xp loss/ character death mechanics)

If something falls for someone else and everyone is off screen I might feel apprehensive about taking it. I think what if they come back for it and see me grabbing something they needed? I ‘feel’ apprehension.

Lets say a rare 2h mace falls, and I’m the only melee in the party and that’s my chosen weapon but someone else got it? I am curious what it was, I ask “can you show me that 2h?” - I might be ‘angry’ they won’t show me, I might be ‘happy’ if they drop it, I might be ‘jealous’ of they show me but say they will keep it.

There are literally dozens of other examples for situations like these that make a person ‘feel’ emotions – some good and some bad, all revolving around LOOT. All of it eliminated by this ‘no-tension’ or NON-FFA mode! This ‘it’ is in fact game immersion we are talking about, the player ‘feels’ what the character experiences and much if not all of it will be lost when every public game uses this mode.

It seems to me that many players are afraid of these negative possibilities and want to eliminate it; they are victims of fear itself. Now we are all going to have to suffer the game changing modifications because some people ‘just won’t try it’ – yes you know who you are. You won’t play the game the way it was designed and now it has to change because of… I’m sorry there is no other way to put it, I know it’s an awful word, but it’s true. BABIES.

What PoE needs is a wading pool for people to learn and make the transition then, not a sweeping change affecting all games default, HC and races.

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So everyone knows about pacts where you make friends and agree to share loot or at least not compete with each other’s timers? Friendships are forged this way. (notice they get to do so by agreement, not by selecting ‘options’ when making a game and forcing it on anyone who joins) I’m still in touch with people I met over ten years ago because of FFA loot in D2. However, it happens all the time and often without words and even among strangers:

I’m playing in the one week HC race and last night I was running with a group that was just awesome – the three of us fighting for our lives descending Lunaris temple in cruel difficulty heading for Piety. (all with three day old found total crap gear) I made it a point to not pick up ANYTHING that didn’t fall for me. After a while I noticed that both of them were doing the same for me no big deal I can almost always get my loot if I wanted it anyway, I was just happy to be in a good group and wanted to show my gratitude.

Well guess what happened? A major fucking brawl breaks out. We had three champions with different auras stacking, monsters everywhere and simply no room for error – everyone dropping totems and curses and dashing through doors at the last moment as we wait for flasks to kick in and guess what falls for me while my health was at 1/10 full and in full retreat.

Both of them walked right past it and continued on… just awesome! I would not have blamed them if they took it, it was the one time I really could not beat the timer - being nice does pay off. It would have just been an emotionless ‘plunk sound’ of picking it up if the game was set to ‘no tension’ mode. I promise you it was anything but emotionless.

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Chris wrote:

We initially announced that looting is free-for-all in Path of Exile.
It's important to us that Path of Exile has a cut-throat feel where players are not only competing against monsters, but also their fellow players.

The time would be increased by the time it takes for the character to run to the item. An item allocated to a ranged player might unallocate after two seconds, for example.
- It's important that the time is low enough that the player can only get the item if they are paying attention and make an effort to immediately grab it.
- The allocation times can be lower or non-existent in hardcore or cut-throat leagues.

To me, a full 'no tension' loot option is a betrayal of these statements. I would at least like to hear from Chris why these things were so 'important' and why they don't seem to matter now before they change it.