What's wrong with deterministic crafting?
" I actually said that was a meme :p they don't balance around streamers the games pretty comfortable if your willing to learn the fights, glass cannon and accept occasional deaths. Its a frustrating statement for me because their balance is poor, scapegoating the balance approach as a streamer one doesn't help because the truth is I don't think they know what their balance approach is, the shifting MTX cycle was a believable one but even that seems to have fallen to the wayside. The rest is playtime metric driven, which I personally think is sad but has always been their approach |
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" " This is what I dont understand. Sry Sure Harvest would enable more builds. Then the difficulty gets cranked up and we end up with exact same builds being able to do it - AFTER having to go through the entire Harvest crafting process which isnt needed right now. Why would this be good or helpful or anything? Im really trying to understand this. Because what you are basically saying is this: Too many skills suck. I fully agree Fix those skills then. Harvest wont help at all achieving this, it would just trigger another global mob/boss buff nullifying anything Harvest added. |
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That's why i said one sentence later that i don't think a buff to monster life was needed. If they leave harvest and tripple monster life then you are probably right and nothing changes. But leaving harvest and increasing monster life by 20 or even 50% would probably mean a lot more builds that are fully viable all through end game.
One more point i want to add is that, if we've had this conversation like 8 months earlier, i would have agreed with you. Back then, even without harvest it was very much possible to do the hardest content like Cortex, Sirus 8 and Uber Elder with pretty much any one of my builds without too much of a hassle. Even without trade. Even underpowered stuff could do those encounters with SSF level gear if you know what you are doing. But this changed drastically in 3.13. GGG pushed the power ceiling for mandatory content by several magnitudes when they implemented invitations and made their completion mandatory due to linking atlas passives to them. Even the easier ones of those invitations are way tougher than Uber Elder, Cortex and Sirus and whats more, way more restrictive in terms of what kind builds can do them than all the other endgame bosses. As i said, all my builds can comfortably do Sirus 8. But lasting through even an average rolled the formed invitation? Barely if at all. 5 or 6 of my builds can do it reliably, and when we get to the hidden or feared this number is cut in half again. Like just go and try doing any of those invitations on an off meta selfcast build that isn't using archmage and you'll see what i mean. In 3.13 i didn't mind because they added harvest so that difficulty increase was justified but then in 3.14 they took that away and left the invitations untouched. Now let's wait another 1 or 2 seasons for them to annihilate all the remaining skills that can do this shit and SSF are finally locked out of endgame for good. " It might be a meme but there is some truth to it by now. They certainly didn't nerf harvest because average joe could get 5 relevant tier 5 rolls on his item. They nerfed it because streamers and top players produced 6 x elevated mod items non stop. And now everyone else is paying the price for that. Last edited by Baharoth15#0429 on Jun 25, 2021, 8:45:43 AM
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" Oh man...So true. People are quick to dismiss what devastating effect the streamers have on the game balancing. With that I don't mean streamers are bad, the way GGG over reacts to what streamers do, is what is bad. "There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. " ~ Hunter S Thompson ~
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" This is what I was talking about. Back in Ritual league Harvest crafting allowed my to triple my DPS in 40hrs of Atoll farming. Nothing else the game had to offer mattered. Atlas passives introduced? Dont give a fuck, T11 Atolls is where its at. As I said I did this for 40hrs and couldnt stand it. It sucked but I did it anyways. After being done with that my bleed dps went up from 2.3 mill to 7 mill - dealing overall 50 mill bleed dmg and I wasnt finished with the build at all. I went to fight Sirus and had to hit him once per phase. Thats it. One hit and the fight/phase was over. 20-50% inc life wouldnt change anything. GGG would be forced to triple boss life pools and then what? I spend another 40hrs spamming Atolls to min/max the build? Hows that fun? Harvest isnt the solution. Its a big fucking crutch people got used to, thats all it is and somehow they cant see past this. It invalidated everything else the game had to offer, turned bosses into jokes and not for doing hard content earning this. No no spamming easy T11s was somehow the best thing you could do. How can you not see that this is wrong? Balancing flaws everywhere in PoE aside: Harvest in its original form was bad for the game |
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You know, even if i were to agree that it's nothing but a crutch, a crutch solution to a problem is still better than no solution and i am far past the point of expecting GGG to solve the actual problem. They don't even want to, disregarding the question of whether they can do it.
I agree that it's a crutch in regards to the balance issues we have, that said, i still think an ARPG should have means of aquiring good gear without trade. POE doesn't really have that at least not for normal people. You can get like 10 or 20% of whats potentially possible without trade. That's a sad joke. Even if you don't need 100% to do all content it's still bad balancing. Trade being faster would be fine but at this point it's more a matter of getting there at all and not a matter of when to get there. Last edited by Baharoth15#0429 on Jun 25, 2021, 9:14:20 AM
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" they nerfed it because average joe could make gear that cost 100ex one patch prior if said average joe had the knowledge of how the tags worked. If top players creating poggers items was the problem they'd have addressed something else as they clearly still do it based on my reddit wow item perusals. TFT is its own problem and certainly limiting harvest to self only was a legitimate approach but even had they said you can only use your own harvests no trading the power creep that results is bigger than any single change they've made prior. Harvest was supremely powerful even if you didn't trade it, I loved it but i'm not surprised its gone. Would the game be better if they kept it but buffed the difficult? Hard to say its a very tough one to untangle I actually think Harvests biggest success was allowing almost every build to reach a power level where it actually worked. And they could replicate that without touching crafting if they put some effort into it. |
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" They've always balanced around the highest denominator rather than average. So as long as streamers, in terms of highly skilled players, inhabit this side of the spectrum, then technically it's not wrong to say the game gets balanced around them. Or the people alike, with identical skills. This is a buff © 2016
The Experts ™ 2017 |
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I am not saying that they should have left harvest completely untouched, it was way too powerful, i agree with that. But they went way overboard and killed it for anyone who doesn't exploit the mechanic by using TFT. They should have limited the power while leaving the deterministic part. For example by making it acc bound and balancing it by rarity or by limiting the number of crafts you can use on an item or by limiting the max tier you can get for crafts. That way the overall powerlevel wouldn't have changed and the best items would still require lots of luck and/or time to get but people wouldn have been able to incrementaly improve their gear and actually utilize the trash that dropped instead of being forced into trade for upgrades. Last epoch is a prime example on how itemization should work. POE is a prime example of how it shouldn't work.
Harvest deserved a nerf not the nerfs it got. Last edited by Baharoth15#0429 on Jun 25, 2021, 9:42:34 AM
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" No sorry but completely disagree, if it was balanced around the highest denominator an overwhelming majority wouldn't be able to do it. Meanwhile every league we get hundreds of videos with sub second boss kills of any type its possible for yet your arguing the game is balanced around them. It isn't, its balanced where 6 portals and a million dps gives you a high chance of success until you get to the content specifically designed for power gamers or expensive builds. You can't take like the feared then make it the balance goal for all content its specifically designed as an unbalanced PoS to challenge people with nothing left to do. And agreed Baharoth I was pretty unhappy with where harvest ended up there were better solutions available, on HC I don't even think it justifies the risk most of the time and thats REALLY sad lol. Last edited by Draegnarrr#2823 on Jun 25, 2021, 9:52:43 AM
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