Fire Trap
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Fire traps have two separate sources of damage:
First is detonation fire damage - which has tags: 'Damage', 'Hit', 'Fire', 'Spell', 'Trap', 'Area of Effect'. To know how many damage it deals, take a look on tooltip and read 'Deals x - y Fire Damage'. This damage can ignite, which is 1/3 of damage dealt to enemy. Second is burning damage caused by Burning Ground - which has tags: 'Damage over Time', 'Burning'. It DOES NOT have tags: 'Damage', 'Hit', 'Fire', 'Spell', 'Trap'. To know how many damage it deals, take a look on tooltip and read 'Deals z Fire Damage per second'. This burning damage stacks with ignite from detonation. It is independent on detonation damage. ~~nas http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/73928 <-- [Newbie Friendly] Marauder Melee Build
IGN: NinjaArabStrategist |
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Is ST and the burning nodes enough to do good damage for fire traps burn? Or do I need a good initial hit to proc a high burn :/? Wondering because I want to use the new Kaoms and stack 7 Charges/172%LifeNodes/130%AR using Searing Touch.
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" Yes. Post 60 you may want to ignite via chance to ignite and elemental poliferation http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/73928 <-- [Newbie Friendly] Marauder Melee Build
IGN: NinjaArabStrategist |
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So the burning ground DoT is not affected by the trap damage increase passives? I need a clarification here because everyone keeps telling me different things.
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Trap damage passives does not influence Burning Ground.
Damage over Time is NOT Damage. Inceased Damage NEVER influence Damage over Time. I.E. Sunblast or Le Heups does not influence Damage over Time Burn form Ground Effect is Damage over Time, so modificator has to have indicated "increased damage over time" (like in vulnerability curse). Trap damage passives indicates 'increased damage', so they do not affect burning ground http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/73928 <-- [Newbie Friendly] Marauder Melee Build
IGN: NinjaArabStrategist |
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The patch changed a LOT of things.
Would be nice to have the base damage values updated on wiki according to nerf. I have only two high fire traps so I can't even do that though from what I can see the damage loss past lvl 15 is around losing 2 levels on fire trap pre-nerf. Roughly 30-31-33-35-36-38% loss for levels 15/16/17/18/19/20. In addition, there is a total of 168% increased trap damage (and 10% penetration) of which 90-100% are reasonably getable on a single build. THE FOLLOWING WALL OF TEXT CONTAINS THEORY CRAFTING AND LOTS OF ROUNDING UP/APPROXIMATE CALCULATIONS, IF YOU ARE NOT INTERESTED SKIP THIS
Spoiler
If we take perfect searing touch now, it gives 90% increased and roughly 25% more damage. Plus, from passives we get 200-220% increased damage from passives for spells/elemental/fire/area. Plus we get, lets say 162% increased damage more from gear/quality on gems.
We assume average average non-fire resist opponent (25% resistance) with us having fire pene gem (49%). So in total we (rounding) got 30% less from nerf (nerf to damage + nerf to scaling from +2 levels) and got 16% more INCREASED DAMAGE total, plus a 5-9 (7% average) more damage from penetration on trap. 0.7*1.16*1.07 = 0.86 eg 13% nerf on pure damage of a fire trap. AND WE STILL HAVE TO SPEND MORE SKILL POINTS TO GET THIS DAMAGE. So its 11% nerf to ignite damage (i assume penetration for trap does not work for chance to ignite burning) and around 7% more burning ground damage. Now the question I ask is: We get around 100% increased trap damage for around 20 skill points, and 168% for around 35+ skill points. For 20 skill points it is possible to get: around 350% increased crit rate and around 100% increased crit damage. if we assume we had 6.5% crit rate and 150% crit damage total before, for that we get 19% crit rate and 300% crit damage total. That is over 30% possible more direct damage overall (i know, crits are based on luck and 19% is waay too low). Trap nodes we take give us just 20%, but stable. But what if we now switch our damage gear for crit gear? Say maligaros (we trade 50% increased spell damage for by 2.5% increased crit rate and and 75% increased crit damage total), rings and amulet (say we had 22% fire on each, and we got 2x crit rate (2x30% = 60% increased = 3% crit rate) rings and an amu (lets say 25% = 1.25% and 50% global crit damage) with just 11% fire damage on each). We lost 142% fire damage (not like anyone will ever get 3x accessories with 22% fire and 26% spell on amu) and got + 6.25% crit rate and +150% total critical damage. Recalculating New total damage increase is 90+20+210 = 320% (down from 452%), and the trap nodes would increase it by (1+3.2+1)(1+3.2)= 24% increase (4% more). If in same situation we get crit passives instead: 25.25% crit rate and 450% crit damage total. That is already over 80% increase over trap passives now. But lets find out how much we lost on losing 122% increased. With trap nodes we lost 19% on base damage. With crit nodes we lost 23% on base damage. LEts see whats here. If we dont take trap or crit nodes and our gear is perfect damage one. Lets make it have base of 1 efficiency. So its effectiveness total would be 1.03 (with its crit rate and damage) Trap nodes would increase it to 1.236. Crit nodes would increase it to 1.34. We change gear to very very medium crit rate one. With traps we lose 19% base. new base is 0.81. With trap nodes and new crit = 1.048. A huge loss. With crit nodes we are now 0.77 base. With crit nodes out new efficiency is 1.44. A good increase. Obviously, the only thing this points out is that crit rate/damage is indeed OP in this game. Sadly we are limited to 3 traps at a time so even 25% crit rate in not viable. Now the question is, how much more crit rate we need to get for it to be viable and is it worth to obtain that rate at the cost of Searing Touch? That is what I am trying to know. Last edited by ichishi on Oct 26, 2013, 1:10:25 PM
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Does the multiple traps support gem reduce the burning ground dmg or only the explosions?
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only explosion
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" Hi, You seem to know a lot of the mechanics of this complex gem. I am somewhat addicted to that gem as well and love to play my fire trapper and always looking for improvement. If what You say is true, it is the best answer i´ve read here. ;) I played a fire-trapper at the beginning of Onslaught some month ago. Since that time the gem underwent a bunch of changes as it seems (cooldown, damage calculation? etc.) plus all those "trap-nodes" in the passive tree. It now is possible to create a burning ground carpet all over the screen (Multiple Traps, Increased Area of Effect). Concerning to what You say it seems useless somehow since it makes no sense just to rely on the Burning Damage (even I thought they increased it significantly!). Have I understood this correctly? Do You suggest to play that gem as effective as possible by going still with that initial explosion (as it was months ago)? I mean (4-linked Searing Touch): "Fire Trap" + "Chance to Ignite" + "Elemental Proliferation" + "Increased Burning Damage" + Trap/Fire-Damage nodes and Crit rather than; "Fire Trap" + "Multiple Traps" + "Increased Burning Damage" + "Increased Area of Effect"? regards | |
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I was actually playing both of these set-ups. I have to say I prefered first one:
Fire Trap + Increased Burning Damage + Chance to Ignite + Elemental Poliferation and Decoy Totem in the middle of a burned ground. About nodes, I took all burn damage and some fire ones. I dislike trap nodes because they are simply too far and I feel it is better to simply take fire/spell ones. Also I dislike crit nodes. It would be simple to keep up 7 power charges, but still base critical chance is very low. Considering you can't spam Fire Trap you can't rely on critical. There was a more detailed post about crit in this thread written by me. http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/73928 <-- [Newbie Friendly] Marauder Melee Build
IGN: NinjaArabStrategist |
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