Difference between Blizzard and GGG

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Tagek wrote:

How do you know all winks will be to wow though? :)
There's plenty of awesome winks to previous diablo games in D3, and I'm sure there will be winks to other, perhaps more far-fetched stuff as well.

Although probably not as far-fetched as korean heroes, I'll give you that.

I didn't say all. I said 'the'. The collective wink is definitely to gamers to have played WoW because I think it's actually impossible for Blizzard to consider players who haven't. And at 10 million plus subscribers, who could blame them?

...The fact that subscribing to WoW at a certain level gives you Diablo 3 only reinforces my belief who the target market of D3 is.

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Charanjaydemyr wrote:

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Tagek wrote:

How do you know all winks will be to wow though? :)
There's plenty of awesome winks to previous diablo games in D3, and I'm sure there will be winks to other, perhaps more far-fetched stuff as well.

Although probably not as far-fetched as korean heroes, I'll give you that.

I didn't say all. I said 'the'. The collective wink is definitely to gamers to have played WoW because I think it's actually impossible for Blizzard to consider players who haven't. And at 10 million plus subscribers, who could blame them?

...The fact that subscribing to WoW at a certain level gives you Diablo 3 only reinforces my belief who the target market of D3 is.

Who gave you the right to tell sheep the truth? Who are you a Sheepwhisperer?

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Charanjaydemyr wrote:

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zeto wrote:

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alcovitch wrote:

Just a little piece of fact for you: The Diablo 3 team is a completely separate team from World of Warcraft (which as a game borrowed a lot of ideas from Diablo anyways)

It's not... :

Alex Mayberry is Senior Producer on Diablo III.
2008 - World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King, Blizzard Entertainment; Senior Producer
2007 - World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade, Blizzard Entertainment; Producer

Chris Vincent Metzen is the Vice President of Creative Development... he's of course been on the WOW team.

David (Dave) Adams is Lead Level Designer
2008 - World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King, Blizzard; Level Designer
2007 - World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade, Blizzard; Additional Design

Glenn "Raneman" Rane is a concept artist with Blizzard Entertainment. His primary work has been on the Warcraft and Starcraft series

Joseph Lawrence is Lead Sound Designer for Diablo III.
2008 - World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King
2007 - World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade

Mark Gibbons "Red Knuckle" is a concept artist
2010 - World of Warcraft: Cataclysm, Blizzard Entertainment; Concept Artist
2008 - World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King, Blizzard Entertainment; Creative Development Artist

Michael Chu is a Quest Designer for Diablo III.
2007 - World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade

Nathan Lutsock is an Associate Producer on Diablo III.
2004 - World of Warcraft, Blizzard Entertainment

Phroilan (AKA Froilan) Gardner was a Senior Artist at Blizzard and has contributed concept art for Diablo III, and great deal of artwork to World of Warcraft.
A number of cards for the World of Warcraft: Trading Card Game (WoW: TCG) have had artwork created by Phroi.

Sojin Hwang is a Concept Artist for Diablo III.
Sojin has done the art for a few WoW:TCG cards

Trent Kaniuga is a Blizzard artist working on Diablo III.
2007 - World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King, Blizzard; Concept Art
2006 - World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade, Blizzard; Concept/Environment Artist

Jay Wilson is the Game Director of Diablo III.
After joining Blizzard Jay contributed to MMO World of WarCraft

and so on, and so on... basically ALL the big decision makers for D3 were directly from WOW... and many of the others were influenced by WOW, and I have no doubt that they were specifically instructed to make it as such.

...Nice. Nowhere in the posts that follow does alcovitch acknowledge he was flat-out wrong. He merely latches onto zeto's commentary beneath the barrage of facts.

I pity people who can't at least admit when they've made a mistake and learn from it. Scour the history if you want -- it's happened to me and I've acknowledged it. It's called learning and being honest with yourself. You're not perfect, you can be wrong. It doesn't mean your point is any less valid or that your opinion is any less worthy of expression.

A well-spoken troll is still a troll, it would seem.

One of your cornerstone arguments was utterly countered by zeto, alco, and you couldn't even be good enough to admit it.

Deep pity.

Wow, Look at you, with the 'holier then thou' attitude. Mind steppin' down from that horse (or Diamond Kiwi) you rode in on?

"A well spoken troll, is still a troll" certainly applies here.

Charan, save the moral lesson speeches. I do not seek your approval nor your moral guidance.

Corner stone of my argument? 8-10 people hardly consists of everyone being uprooted from the World of Warcraft teams to "assimilate" Diablo 3 into the WoW folds. The notion that important people on the D3 dev team, who happened to work on the companies biggest game ever, is some kind of "master plan" to make diablo 3 like WoW is ridiculous.

Blizzard has always had separate teams for their projects. When work on one projects wraps up, people from other teams or departments (such as Concept artists, which makes up roughly half of the names quoted above) that have less work help out on whatever project is in the spotlight at the time. This was the case for Diablo III as well to help push it out the door at the final stages of development.

A company with the number of employees Blizzard has will see overlap. People with experience will be working on more then one project at said company. Hardly a surprise.

Saying the Diablo 3 team is separate from the World of Warcraft team is accurate. It is a separate team. Did anyone think they cut 65+ people from WoW development and go "guys, instead of hiring new people for this project, we've decided to cut the WoW team in half and expect you to make, no, force you to make Diablo 3 as close to WoW as possible"?

I'm not sure why all the hate towards the World of Warcraft development team anyways? Having a few experienced people who developed the worlds most successful game in history is hardly a bad thing.


Oh, here's a list of important people on the D3 team who aren't involved with WoW:


Kevin Martens - Lead Content Designer
Game Credits:
2009 - Dragon Age: Origins, BioWare; Senior Design Consultant
2007 - Mass Effect, BioWare; Additional Design
2005 - Jade Empire, BioWare; Lead Designer
2003 - Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, BioWare; Special thanks
2002 - Neverwinter Nights, BioWare; Senior Designer
2001 - Baldur's Gate II: Throne of Bhaal, BioWare; Lead Designer
2000 - Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn, BioWare; Co-Lead Designer
2000 - MDK2, BioWare; Story Development
1999 - Baldur's Gate: Tales of the Sword Coast, BioWare; Senior Designer


Anthony Stabley Rivero - Senior Character Artist

I could find nothing in this guy's bio that linked him to WoW. He has been around since Diablo 2 however.


Chris Amaral is a Character Artist for Diablo III
Game Credits:
2001 - Icewind Dale: Heart of Winter, Black Isle Studios


Chris Haga is a lead artist and skill designer on Diablo 3


Christian Lichtner - Art Director Diablo III


Ian Ameling is an Environment Artist on the Dungeon Team for Diablo III
Game Credits:
2008 - Dead Space, Electronic Arts; Concept Artist
2006 - Neverwinter Nights 2, Obsidian Entertainment; Environment Concept Artist
2006 - Star Wars: Empire at War - Forces of Corruption, LucasArts; Additional Concept Art
2005 - The Sims 2, Electronic Arts; Concept Artist
2005 - God of War, Sony Computer Entertainment America; Creature Concept Artist
2003 - World Series Baseball 2K3, Blue Shift; Texture Artist


Jason Bender is Senior Systems Designer on Diablo III
Game Credits:
2010 – Command & Conquer 4: Tiberian Twilight, Electronic Arts. Lead Concept Designer
2008 – Command & Conquer 3: Kane's Wrath, Electronic Arts. Designer
2007 – Command & Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars, Electronic Arts. Lead Designer
2006 – The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-Earth II - The Rise of the Witch-King, Electronic Arts. Special Thanks
2006 – The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle Earth II, Electronic Arts. Lead Designer
2004 – The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-Earth, Electronic Arts. Designer
[...]


Jason Regier is Lead Programmer for Diablo III

He's also part of the original team on D2 from Blizzard North.


Jay Wilson Game Director of Diablo III

Not even sure why Jay was even mentioned in the previous list. While he's cited as helping out on WoW, he's not actually credited for anything. He joined Blizzard in 2007. His only official role at blizzard has always been Lead Designer for Diablo III.

Games Credits:
StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty (2010), Blizzard Entertainment Europe
Company of Heroes (2006), THQ Inc.
Company of Heroes (Collector's Edition) (2006), THQ Inc.
Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War (Game of the Year Edition) (2005), THQ Inc.
Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War (2004), THQ Inc.
Homeworld 2 (2003), Sierra Entertainment, Inc., Vivendi Universal Games, Inc.
Impossible Creatures (2003), Microsoft Game Studios
Blood II: The Chosen (1998), GT Interactive Software Corp.
Blood II: The Chosen - The Nightmare Levels (1998), GT Interactive Software Corp.
King's Quest: Mask of Eternity (1998), Sierra On-Line, Inc.


Jill Harrington is a Senior Technical Artist for Diablo III
Game Credits:
2009 - Dungeons and Dragons Online: Eberron Unlimited, Turbine; Additional Art
2007 - The Lord of the Rings Online: Shadows of Angmar, Turbine; Additional Art


That's what, 10 people so far? Most in senior or higher positions on the D3 dev team who have nothing to do with World of Warcraft.

Yeah my original post was "utterly countered". What was that? with a "barrage of facts"?

'Completely separate'.

Just admit he got you and move on.

PS please drop the 'diamond' thing. I'd have said the exact same thing regardless. If I had my way it wouldn't even be on there; the option to change it is coming, and not soon enough for my likes.

The thing is, if you believe that the D3 team, with it's major players coming directly out of WOW, was not *primarily* influenced by WOW, and that the reason that they really do look similar is not because it worked in WOW, and the reason why the game as a whole was streamlined is not because it worked in WOW... then you're not really reading the situation objectively.

All the people who make the real decisions on D3, were heavily involved and indoctrinated by WOW.

That is not a completely bad thing, in some aspects I'm sure it DOES make D3 better... but in some ways it'll certainly make it worse as well... and in many aspects it will be entirely up to the individual to decide if it was a good change or not.

But they are simply not completely separate teams... a significant majority of input has come from the WOW side of the fence by bringing in man-power from that team.

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Charanjaydemyr wrote:

'Completely separate'.

Just admit he got you and move on.

PS please drop the 'diamond' thing. I'd have said the exact same thing regardless. If I had my way it wouldn't even be on there; the option to change it is coming, and not soon enough for my likes.

This is why my donations are all $10. Cant stand having a value assigned to my name.

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zeto wrote:

The thing is, if you believe that the D3 team, with it's major players coming directly out of WOW, was not *primarily* influenced by WOW, and that the reason that they really do look similar is not because it worked in WOW, and the reason why the game as a whole was streamlined is not because it worked in WOW... then you're not really reading the situation objectively.

All the people who make the real decisions on D3, were heavily involved and indoctrinated by WOW.

That is not a completely bad thing, in some aspects I'm sure it DOES make D3 better... but in some ways it'll certainly make it worse as well... and in many aspects it will be entirely up to the individual to decide if it was a good change or not.

But they are simply not completely separate teams... a significant majority of input has come from the WOW side of the fence by bringing in man-power from that team.

I have never understood the WoW hate. Really is it because it's an actually accessible MMO? Like how Everquest (and nearly every single previous MMO) was? I mean niche games are good and all, but EVERYONE loves CoD and it's hardly hardcore in the game area.

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alcovitch wrote:

Jay Wilson Game Director of Diablo III

Not even sure why Jay was even mentioned in the previous list. While he's cited as helping out on WoW, he's not actually credited for anything. He joined Blizzard in 2007. His only official role at blizzard has always been Lead Designer for Diablo III.

He is not in the official credits, however he is mentioned to have worked heavily on Burning Crusade.

Also

Jay Wilson: If you want to blame anyone for the rainbows [bright colours] you'd blame our art director Brian [Morrisroe]. Because Brian is more the person who drove the art style into where it is.

Brian Morrisroe (sometimes referred to as "Morrisoe") was the Art Director on the Diablo 3 development team.
World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade - Lead Dungeon Artist (2007, Blizzard)

These sorts of things are simply not coincidences.

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Charanjaydemyr wrote:

'Completely separate'.

Just admit he got you and move on.

PS please drop the 'diamond' thing. I'd have said the exact same thing regardless. If I had my way it wouldn't even be on there; the option to change it is coming, and not soon enough for my likes.

To hell with the jellies, Charan. Leave your Supporter level alone. You should be proud of your contributions, both monetary, and as a prolific, eloquent, and impactful poster on the forum.

Seems to me those who snipe at your Diamond Supporter title don't appreciate your contribution to the furtherance of PoE's development, and, as such, don't seem to appreciate PoE, much, either. Otherwise, they'd be glad someone has the wherewithal and the motivation to help keep the PoE ball rolling.

And do yourself a favor. Stop giving these D3 trolls any more of your time. You've explained yourself to them far more than necessary, and far, FAR more than they deserve. Let them peddle their arguments, specious or otherwise, until May 15, when they ought by all rights to leave the rest of us alone as they go off to play D3.

I look forward to more walls of text from you about PoE, and not so much about D3, 'kay? =^[.]^=

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Autocthon wrote:

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zeto wrote:

The thing is, if you believe that the D3 team, with it's major players coming directly out of WOW, was not *primarily* influenced by WOW, and that the reason that they really do look similar is not because it worked in WOW, and the reason why the game as a whole was streamlined is not because it worked in WOW... then you're not really reading the situation objectively.

All the people who make the real decisions on D3, were heavily involved and indoctrinated by WOW.

That is not a completely bad thing, in some aspects I'm sure it DOES make D3 better... but in some ways it'll certainly make it worse as well... and in many aspects it will be entirely up to the individual to decide if it was a good change or not.

But they are simply not completely separate teams... a significant majority of input has come from the WOW side of the fence by bringing in man-power from that team.

I have never understood the WoW hate. Really is it because it's an actually accessible MMO? Like how Everquest (and nearly every single previous MMO) was? I mean niche games are good and all, but EVERYONE loves CoD and it's hardly hardcore in the game area.

Nowhere in there was I hating on WOW. That doesn't mean that it hasn't influenced D3, nor does it mean that it should have.