A realization about Path Of Exile economy, from watching Streamers

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rhad wrote:

Please feel free to provide the proof I'm wrong. His name is on the 3 biggest RMT sights. MMKAY

Please feel free to provide the proof you're right, mmkay.

I did some googling and still can't "see the light" it seems.
Oh, and just in case i don't count myself among so called "fanbois" who blindly defend their idol against every bit of criticizm, but all i can see behind certain nerfs so far is balance issues (some crude and strange decisions at some times there) and pushing mtx sales by making some another skill "op" for the next league along with making mtx for it (which i basically don't like very much but whatever, they must earn their daily bread somehow).

Umm, and can't say i would care even if they own every rmt site in the world as far as it helps them making interesting and bug-free content (just in case i don't count most of delirium league content as such - cluster jewels are definitely great idea, but the rest felt like just another loot piñata which was rather buggy and laggy in the first 1.5 months or so)

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MrWonderful99 wrote:

I can do what you say only streamers can do which is rifle through 20 waves like it is nothing etc. And I pretty much am a very average player (but a good trader and researcher).

Which is the point in my OP.

I consider myself a slightly above average player and a really, really bad trader.
Always have been a terrible trader, so basically what carried me through end-game fights such as Shaper, is a lot of trial and error, mechanics learning, and the accumulated gear in Standard since 2013 in most cases (only did it once or twice in a League).
And what got me to those fights to begin with, is usually months of weekend grinding.
Accumulation of splinters, keys, fragments and whatnot, that usually gets me one or two attempts at the big bad end-game boss.
Pulling it through is what I consider a milestone and an achievement, for myself.

Meanwhile you are "rifling through" because you're good at trading. You're rich.
If you weren't rich you'd need exceptional playing skills to "rifle through", or good playing skills to get a result better than my "attempt once for the achievement" strategy.
But since you're rich you don't care about things like boss mechanics or gathering splinters. You buy splinters. You buy gear that melts the boss in seconds. Done.
And then if the boss has exclusive loot that is worth something in the economy, you sell it and become even richer - while I'm still there collecting shards of something, like a homeless maniac.
Used to be a gap, between the rich and the poor. Now it's an abyss.

Are there tools now that can help me "git gud" at trading, which didn't exist back in 2013? Yes. And I imagine quite good ones.
But do I want to "git gud"? No. Because that's not the way I play.
I do trade now and then, but don't enjoy it.

GGG doing more and more steps over time that help a rich Streamer or a rich player, while fucking me over more?
I don't think I'm the target audience of this game anymore.
It's more than burnout, at this point.

You dont have to be good at trading; especially this league.

You can literally run your maps white, and make money. Yesterday I did 2 Simulacrums. One of them was put together while I was running white trash t14s to spawn Sirius and Conquerors. So I put together a 1ex map, running like 15 white maps in 2-3 minutes apiece.

I did that Simulacrum, and another I had. I turned on Exilence, just to see how much I made. I made 1150c on 2 simulacrum maps, and there was nothing but Scarabs/splinters/fossils/shards in there. No full exalts. No big drops. I dont even know what the rares are; I havent ID'd them yet. Thats just the trash. Just the damn gilded scarabs/essences/fossils and other whatnots that added up to 1150c. It actually surprised me there was that much currency in those pages since I had nothing of note in there.

Has nothing to do with playing the market. Your trying to make excuses for literally NOT playing the game.

If you play the game, you will make currency. You might not be ultra rich, but you damn sure wont be poor. ESPECIALLY this league. This league is easy money. This league is one of the easiest. You can run piss easy maps all day for easy Simulacrum splinters. You can then sell those, or just run em for easy profit.

You are not playing the game; thats why you dont have currency. You cant play 3 maps and be like damn those streamers. I agre with some of what you said, but at the same time, you just arent playing the game. You cant earn currency and accomplish things, if you dont play.

any grinding game is no different than programming. Ironically, they are created by programmer. Perhaps, it is time to move onto something that can excite you again, just like what poe in the beginning. Nothing in the world can give us constant excitement. Overtime, we all change and it is natural we move onto sth even more exciting. such is life.

cheers.

I feel a lot of people are misunderstanding the OP in this post. What i think he is trying to point out is that 99% of the "money" in the game comes from people that already are rich.

Because right now the difference in raw currency generation between a HH MF build and Average Joe playing the game for fun is at least 1000x.

We are almost reaching a point where the inflation caused by the 1% is bigger than the currency the 99% can generate.

And the actual true problem is that the HH MF guy didn't grinded the currency doing content to get there like the average Joe would do, he played the market to get there.

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Destructodave wrote:

You dont have to be good at trading; especially this league.

I did that Simulacrum, and another I had. I turned on Exilence, just to see how much I made. I made 1150c on 2 simulacrum maps, and there was nothing but Scarabs/splinters/fossils/shards in there. No full exalts. No big drops. I dont even know what the rares are; I havent ID'd them yet. Thats just the trash. Just the damn gilded scarabs/essences/fossils and other whatnots that added up to 1150c. It actually surprised me there was that much currency in those pages since I had nothing of note in there.

And here comes food for thought, you made 1150c in 2 simulacrums maps, but you will need probably to do more than a hundred trades to exchange those items for those chaos. 1 trade takes on average 20 seconds, so 2000 seconds of only trading (33 minutes). So you probably did 2 simulacrums in 20 minutes and now will take 33 minutes to convert that loot in currency and then even more time to convert that currency in something you want.

The ratio of Playing the game Vs Playing the market in this game is awful. And if you want to "get rich" you have to play the market, that's the only way, since no matter how fast/efficient you are you still need to sell/buy things and that takes time from actually playing the game (which is one of OP points since he doesn't like to play the market).

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johnKeys wrote:

GGG doing more and more steps over time that help a rich Streamer or a rich player, while fucking me over more?
I don't think I'm the target audience of this game anymore.
It's more than burnout, at this point.

What about players that are proving your "theory" wrong? Players like me. I don't stream. I don't play 8 hours a day. I'm not "above" average, as you are calling yourself. Yet I have no problems with beating a 20 wave Simulacrum, nor reach a respectable amount of stacks in T16 maps. I don't even trade tht much either. Are players like me ignored in this thread/debate?

You don't need heaps of currency to beat the game. Sure, you do need a fair amount to break the game, but is that really your goal?

No offense, but I think your views are a little bit narrow minded. EVERYONE is the "target audience". Does that mean that every single member of the "target audience" is meant to beat the game, break the game and do everything in the game? Of course not.

But sure, if your demands are to be able to achieve the same amount of wealth as people playing 8 hours a day, they of course you're not the "target audience". But if your demands are to beat the game, Sirus and the hardest content, you are WELL within the boundaries.

Whats the saying get rich or die hard trying... well i died must be pretty close to 550 times i spent 17 ex on lucky deck to learn it aint worth it i open up 770 lucky decks they were 3c each it was fun but not worth it.

i probably made 30 ex its enough for me. im playing few hours here and their.
just mucking around now.

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The root of all of this for me, is the builds and crafting. I don't understand the skill tree, I never will, I never want to. I don't understand crafting, I never will, I never want to.

I follow the builds that other people post. I buy the gear they suggest. I don't play builds that aren't fun. I go against the meta which makes life harder.

Unfortunately, this severely limits what I can accomplish in the game. Not following the meta means you have to rely on skill. Skill is obtained through trial and error which is entirely too expensive. Why would I run simu when I can just sell it for guaranteed income? It's taken me weeks to acquire enough splinters to run it and I'll just die at wave 15. I have no hope of learning it.

There's not many budget builds that are fun and can clear all content. There's plenty that can be used by experienced players with muscle memory and knowledge or just downright skill.

I'm still struggling to find enough maps to sustain T12+. Even if I could spawn a boss I would just waste it and spend forever trying to spawn it again. So I just sell. Or pay for a carry. I learn nothing. Such is POE.

If they had practice mode that offered no loot and could be spawned more easily, I would feel differently. Or offer unlimited attempts but bonus loot for < 5 deaths.

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adamsaun wrote:

I don't understand the skill tree, I never will, I never want to. I don't understand crafting, I never will, I never want to.

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adamsaun wrote:

Unfortunately, this severely limits what I can accomplish in the game.

If you're not willing to learn, or as you put it; if you don't "want" to learn the fundamentals of the game, then yes; it severely limits what you can accomplish.

Builds and guides are brilliant ways into learning the game. But if you're not willing to learn, and instead follow them blindly, you will never know "why" or "how" on pretty important elements of the game.

IF you one day find it in your heart to learn - if you "want" to, you don't have to think about meta. You can make your own builds, around 90% of the skills in the game - and make them work - far into red maps; most of them all the way.