A realization about Path Of Exile economy, from watching Streamers

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Scarletsword wrote:

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SeCKSEgai wrote:

Oh you can definitely lose money mapping when you take into account the sale value of fragments,sextants, and unexpected dcs.

On a single run, sure but it's actually quite impossible to lose currency when running multiple maps with the same setup or even when running bosses. However, the game allows you to be ineffcient in a lot of places and to overlook valuable loot.

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SeCKSEgai wrote:

Like right now, an uber run is expensive. Even a successful run is unlikely to drop something worthwhile, at least when you compare it to how much you net for sure if you sell the frags outright.

I'll assume that you're talking about uber Elder and not uber Atziri and I'll take this to give an example for the first part.

Uber Elder is actually quite consistent if you aren't just trying it for 2-3 runs.
The reason why uber Elder is always profitable on average is the value of watcher's eyes. For most builds this jewel is absolute best in slot with a potential price of multiple mirrors.
This obviously involves RNG but you have the option of avoiding the RNG of the rolls completely by selling them unidentified.

Some math:
Price of an uber Elder set: 440chaos
Price of an unidentifed ilvl 86 watcher's eye: 13ex or ~2200chaos
Dropchance is somwhere between 20-25%.
In other words: Just selling the unid watcher's eyes will cover your entire investment while every bit of other loot is pure profit and that's quite a bit. You can increase the profit by farming the sets yourself, corrupting the opal rings and a lot of other ways.

This isn't a streamer thing. It's all about knowledge.

It wasn't that long ago that burning 40 chaos (previous atlas) of frags for shaper's touch or boots was too much for me to bother with given the other avenues of profit with much less risk.

440c is a lot for me, especially when you need several times that for the rng.

I don't remember watcher's eye having a 20-25% drop chance in the old system. So if that's changed that's good to know.

But then again, 33% chance to spawn conqueror in metamorph also had massive swings where 1 out of 3 ended up 1 out of 20+.

Don't get me wrong, I get the general concept it's the building of the initial currency "pool" (like map pool) to comfortably commit to spending a ton per run. I also hate building the actual map pool. I can definitely acknowledge that I'm not efficient as I could be and waste time micromanaging things I shouldn't bother with - but as I think I mentioned before its the repetition that gets me. It's not as bad as D2 but it's still very monotonous.

The other thing is the economy as a factor itself, especially as it slows down after that second month (if not sooner). It usually takes me two days to get through story arc. It's not literally 48 hours, but definitely more than the 3-4. I just need that many breaks to do it all over again. I'm just not able to ride that fresh league economy to build up profit early. By the time I'm rolling the richer side of the economy has already finished their league so sales aren't as consistent.

So in other words, it's not that I'm disagreeing with you, it's me saying I know that I as an individual player burn out and/or get bored so the efficiency required to "ascend" to the top tier of the economy just isn't in me, especially as my interest in the game wanes.

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GaethElorian wrote:

Its EXACTLY About knowledge. I was selling all my fragments until i had enough stuff to run Shaper / Elder / SIRIUS by myself. When you know how to make money and what you are doing for your character, nothing is impossible. Also, when you know how and what to craft, you can save a lot. This is how i was able to make my cyclone and my herald characters.

As I stated above in the other post, its not so much having trouble making money, it's staying interested long enough to put in the time.

When I get bored just trying to get through story arc, that struggle applies to mapping on a lesser extent.

Like right now my atlas is pretty much done aside from 1 map and a few uniques, so it's not that I can't gather all the frags myself. (1 away from uber atm). I'm just slower and inefficient as the boredom sets in (which happens often). But, at the same time, I'm also not expecting to be a player in the top tier of the economy.

This game end game is so far above where u think it is
thats ur problem AND thats the difference between a good gamer and a casual

end game of games like poe isnt for casuals my guy

facebook has lots of good games coded for casual gamers like u

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iaapvp wrote:

This game end game is so far above where u think it is
thats ur problem AND thats the difference between a good gamer and a casual

end game of games like poe isnt for casuals my guy

facebook has lots of good games coded for casual gamers like u

Are you referring to me or John?

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SeCKSEgai wrote:

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iaapvp wrote:

This game end game is so far above where u think it is
thats ur problem AND thats the difference between a good gamer and a casual

end game of games like poe isnt for casuals my guy

facebook has lots of good games coded for casual gamers like u

Are you referring to me or John?

was referring to the OP sorry I didnt make that clear :p

No man, it isn't.
OP here.
I've been here since Closed Beta, so while I'm definitely not at the level of a 24/7 Streamer, I was able to beat things like Shaper and Uber Atziri.
Eventually.

End Game requires knowledge no doubt, and quick thinking and reflexes.
Or
It requires a fucking shit ton of currency so you don't even worry about nonsense like learning boss mechanics, because you literally kill a Conqueror in 3 seconds.
You insta-phase level 8 Sirus and take his sword. And you sell it. And you do it a few more times with carry payment. And you are now 100000 times richer than I am, instead of just 1000 times richer.

And I'm not at all bothered by you being disgustingly rich with mirror gear in a League while I'm still struggling to get one BiS item in Standard in 7 fucking years.

But I am bothered when GGG make a patch and say "Kosis", so your rich 10 quadrillion Shaper DPS ass can get some challenge, and my casual ass is completely fucked out of this content altogether.
When I can't progress or set milestones for myself.
What's the point?

streamers play a lot

@John

I get the frustration - it's several leagues later and I'm STILL annoyed about nerfs to things like shimmeron and quill rain.

But you don't need to be streamer level rich to complete the content.

Every challenge I've completed has been without outside help. One of the roughest ones, which needed both a shaper and elder guardian beat at 100% delirium took me readjusting my strategy. Since I wasn't running the herald stack and my computer is far from a powerhouse, I had to tone it down by reducing the difficulty and take the map mods out of the equation.

It wasn't a pretty win but I can't stand the farming of currency for too long without progressing.

I've been a bit sick of cyclone but again given the performance issues of my rig (and the software) and the on death effects that were hard to see it just made the most sense for me. And, unlike elemental damage scaling, it's a lot easier to focus on impale and pure physical.

When I first took down kosis, I actually did a bit less damage and had a lot less hp than now, somewhere between 4800 and 5300 at the time of my first successful simulacrum. I don't think I was running any 20/20 gems even at the time.

Since I know that as a player I can't go zoom zoom and chain maps, I have to adapt not just my playstyle but my expectations accordingly. And even when it comes to reflexes, the beauty of always moving means you minimize the amount of situations where a quick dash or jerk response is needed.

Pursuing best in slot isn't always worth it, especially if you get bored with the repetition easily like I do. I prioritize the core aspects of the build then upgrade from there. If I set myself on BiS only gear, I'd lose interest long before I'd come close.

Yet at the end of the day, it's not earning income that I struggle with most, but inventory management. I still waste too much time on crafting bases I'll probably never craft or even sell. I still feel the need to ID more rares than I should for that really low chance that its actually something pretty.

Agree with you SeCKSEgai.
And that Simulacrum fight you did sounds great. If you have a recording of it, I'll enjoy watching that 100 times more than watching Empyrean and CuteDog demolish content in Headhunters and mirror-tier gear.

But what gets me is GGG balance the game around the Empyrians and the CuteDogs.
Always were, and it always annoyed me but now it really gets to me.
Because doing that means the balance shifts from the fun kind of challenge, to "fuck you. Go get mirror gear like Empyrian and then come back".
Yes you can bypass that with remarkable strategy and playing skills, but you don't have to - if you're filthy rich - and it's also the best way to become even richer and achieve even more goals with less required playing skills and effort.
Fully intended by GGG.

Don't they get it... after all these years... content cannot be balanced around top tier, because that just fucks over the non-top-tier more, and the top-tier will always find a way to power through any kind of Kosis?
That's a rhetorical question. Obviously they don't get it. And it makes me want to play less.

It's all in the build and time spent, you can play a subpar build that just eats up currency and rips 5 portals in sirus (if you're lucky) or you just go with budget version of a meta build then work your way to poe ez mode.

This league I went through 5 different builds until I tried out MoM storm brand hiero by this dude (praise):

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2793186 with which I did all content and made good bank. I then transitioned to LL storm brand and proceeded onto winning the league (6l ivory, skyforth, bottled faith, watcher's eye, unnatural instinct)

All it takes is patience and hours to sink in the game, you can't get all desired items without grinding or choosing the dark path that we don't ever talk about in here.