[0.10.4] LS Marauder (The Striker (tm))

yep i have the elemental nodes in the tree. Also, in your Skills Guide it says to use GMP. At what point should i use GMP then if my dmg is too low?

What do you consider "too low" damage, anyway? You need quite some gear to achieve good damage output for any elementalist build. Your weapon is nice, but the rest is not really (damage wise). Plus your auras are low level. Considering you are playing HC, you are far better off taking more time to kill things, than lower your survivability to get a bit higher kill speed but put yourself in risk of dying.

The LMP/GMP confusion is merely about your too literal guide following - if it gimps your current setup, don't do it. Every character has different gear, and I cannot predict what would be the best for everyone. Following guides literally is what makes most players annoyed, because when they hit a wall they do not know what to do anymore, unless it is also written within the guide. Use the guide as a guideline; not a strict rule.

Only difference between GMP and LMP is spread of damage. GMP makes you fire more, but for less each hit then LMP. So, if your damage isn't what you want it to be with GMP, use LMP like Venator said.

Seems clarified :). thank you for doing the work. I always thought though... that the DPS listed for LS included the weapon strike and one projectile. Are you "absolutely certain" that it is the weapon's strike alone?


If it is the weapon's strike alone, then why does this weapon..



List more DPS on LS, than this weapon, with no axe nodes...



???


I still think there's something missing here.



Also... I never tried to play with IG, I just bought it, didn't see a listed DPS increase and decided it didn't apply to LS. You're saying that if I had used the "don't move" button and just hit enemies with a projectile I would have noticed a difference?

Why wouldn't projectile be accounted for at all in the DPS result? They are everywhere else right?



Also... because it takes 50% physical damage and converts that to Lightning...

Adding 10% physical damage will add 10% damage to a melee struck mob and half of that to a projectile struck mob.

Adding 10% Weapon Elemental damage will will add 10% damage to a melee struck mob and nothing to a projectile struck mob.


I have no evidence at all that supports your theory that the projectiles are affected by weapon elemental damage. Granted... That's based mostly on the fact that weapon one up there shows more listed DPS than weapon two even though the second clearly does more overall DPS (I didn't look at the listed DPS for regular non skill strikes :( ).

They certainly seem affected by auras though...


Your thoughts?

"

M1Combat wrote:

Seems clarified :). thank you for doing the work. I always thought though... that the DPS listed for LS included the weapon strike and one projectile. Are you "absolutely certain" that it is the weapon's strike alone?

The melee hit alone! Projectiles are not accounted for at all in the tooltip.

"

M1Combat wrote:

If it is the weapon's strike alone, then why does this weapon..

List more DPS on LS, than this weapon, with no axe nodes...

???

I still think there's something missing here.

Because your build has all the % damage nodes taken, I'm pretty certain. The melee hit (aka the tooltip DPS) is getting affected by all the melee damage increases you have. You have 110% bonus melee damage (this is the same as if you had 110% bonus axe damage for this calculation) on your passive tree for those weps (the tree you shown me), so the physical damage due to being already bigger gets a bigger increase in the difference, and that then gets converted into lightning, for even more lightning. That is just an example of increases/multipliers doing their job...

"

M1Combat wrote:

Also... I never tried to play with IG, I just bought it, didn't see a listed DPS increase and decided it didn't apply to LS. You're saying that if I had used the "don't move" button and just hit enemies with a projectile I would have noticed a difference?

Why wouldn't projectile be accounted for at all in the DPS result? They are everywhere else right?

This is because IG will not show any change at all on the DPS tooltip - because IG does not affect the melee hit, and it is the melee hit that shows DPS. IG affects the projectiles for which a tooltip is not shown. You would have noticed a difference, yes.
The projectiles are a "secondary effect" (as Mark_GGG said), so I would guess they just don't have the mechanisms available to show the projectile DPS? No idea...

"

M1Combat wrote:

Also... because it takes 50% physical damage and converts that to Lightning...

Adding 10% physical damage will add 10% damage to a melee struck mob and half of that to a projectile struck mob.

Adding 10% Weapon Elemental damage will will add 10% damage to a melee struck mob and nothing to a projectile struck mob.

I have no evidence at all that supports your theory that the projectiles are affected by weapon elemental damage. Granted... That's based mostly on the fact that weapon one up there shows more listed DPS than weapon two even though the second clearly does more overall DPS (I didn't look at the listed DPS for regular non skill strikes :( ).

They certainly seem affected by auras though...

Your thoughts?

This you got wrong. The problem lies within the damage calculations themselves. Basically, the only physical increase to projectiles is from Iron Grip - melee nodes will not affect projectiles at all. However, "physical damage" mods (literally) will apply - the 12% physical damage from Bandit reward applies here.
WED mods apply to projectiles, and you can test it by simply using a WED support gem and testing projectile damage with and without it.
Auras apply both to projectiles and the melee hit in a standard manner, just like they apply to pretty much everything else. So for example, Wrath will add a flat amount of ED to both the melee hit and the projectiles, and then that number is going to be multiplied with all the elemental mods.
And lastly, just considering the melee hit - adding 10% physical or 10% elemental will not result in the same amount of damage inflicted, and it will not be a 10% bonus in either case. This is because the damage calculation is more complicated than that. This depends entirely on what the flat numbers are in the equation. If you try to make a few example damage calculations (you need to make it like a whole mini character to get accurate results), you will see how those two can greatly differ in the amounts of damage added.

One thing I forgot to mention is weapon specific nodes.

If you are using an Axe with Lightning Strike, and you have "increased damage with axes" node(s) taken in the passive tree, your projectiles Will be affected by this, in the same additive manner as with Iron Grip.

Update on LS mechanics!

I just wanted to clarify which nodes work on the projectile component of LS, and which do not. It is as simple as: if a node says "increased Melee Damage (...)", it won't work with the projectiles, and if a node says "increased Physical Damage (...)", it WILL work with the projectiles. I underlined the important parts of the node descriptions.

So if you are using a one handed axe; the nodes which would apply to LS projectiles are for example "6% increased Physical Damage with One Handed Weapons" and "8% increased Physical Damage with Axes", and a node which would not apply is "12% increased Melee Physical Damage".

VenatorPoE - are you able to post the weapon you are using now?

That's a good example.

Just to clarify; I am not playing this build right now.

Thank you.

For the record when I did the testing (or weapon swapping...) I was L50 and had only taken the 12, 8 and 6% nodes just at the marauder start that apparently would have affected my dps number, but not my projectile damage, and I had taken the 6, 18 and 6% that would have affected both.


So... Looks like you proven your case to me :).


Thank you. I'll be sure to take this new found info into account as I'm building my new HC marauder. The last one met an untimely end attempting to take Vaal down solo melee at L50.


I had him to 10% health and got hit by a rock, a lightning beam and 5-8 construct shots all at the same time ;).