Melee needs Tuning - ASAP, Like Yesterday

red maps? with the dreaded syndicate one-shots!? are you mad?

"

robmafia wrote:

red maps? with the dreaded syndicate one-shots!? are you mad?

like always ppl missuse "oneshots" for everything that killed you in less than a sec and totaly fail to realize that they are getting hit by multiple attacks.

all syndicate members deal a good amount of dmg and their spawns as well and the reason why some ppl still die to them repeatedly their unwillingness to lern/adapt

you are supposed to dodge their charged attacks and this can obviously mean that you have to kite them.
like all other strong bosses you simply dont fight them like normal monsters....

if you still believe in oneshots while playing a build with reasonable defences,there is a simple solution to help you learn this lesson.

turn most sound off or make skilleffects loud enough to clearly hear them,equip a level 1 cwdt linked to ic.
you will always hear the sound of ic going off before you die unless its one of the few things that are designed to 1 shot. only endbosses have those and you wont meet these outside of a boss arena.

ic going off is the proof for beeing hit by more than 1 hit,because it triggers after you got hit by something.

edit: the long explanation isnt for you,its for the ppl that refuse to understand this

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

Rob's arguments are basically:
1. "melee is tanky" - true if youre playing robs build or jugg, not true at all as shadow
2. "melee trades clear for tankiness" - you don't get that tankiness if you aren't jugg or glad

1.Shadow is not supposed to be tanky, although you can try playing bloodseeker frost blades.
2. Yes, those ascendancies should excel in tankiness. But I'm pretty sure that you can build tanky melee characters with more ascendancies than those 2. The reason people prefer jugg than let's say occultist, is that requires less investment and is usually more optimal.

You can't expect melee to be tankier by default. Yes it should give more tanky options than ranged/spell but it should also have fast-risky builds as spells should also have tanky builds etc. What should not happen is for one type of build to excel in everything. I don't understand what your suggestion is anymore, I don't think that even you do at this point.

"

Jdahl22 wrote:

1.Shadow is not supposed to be tanky, although you can try playing bloodseeker frost blades.

You can't expect melee to be tankier by default. Yes it should give more tanky options than ranged/spell but it should also have fast-risky builds as spells should also have tanky builds etc.

1. Ok, but it clearly IS supposed to be melee, so what does melee shadow ACTUALLY DO?

And yes to the second part, THAT IS MY POINT. The overwhelming majority of melee aren't fast and the overwhelming majority of ranged aren't tanky. My issue with that is I'd like to play certain melees without having a slow ass build

If you're a melee shadow you just have slow glass

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

"

Jdahl22 wrote:

1.Shadow is not supposed to be tanky, although you can try playing bloodseeker frost blades.

You can't expect melee to be tankier by default. Yes it should give more tanky options than ranged/spell but it should also have fast-risky builds as spells should also have tanky builds etc.

1. Ok, but it clearly IS supposed to be melee, so what does melee shadow ACTUALLY DO?

And yes to the second part, THAT IS MY POINT. The overwhelming majority of melee aren't fast and the overwhelming majority of ranged aren't tanky. My issue with that is I'd like to play certain melees without having a slow ass build

If you're a melee shadow you just have slow glass

Shadow FB bloodseeker clears fast and facetanks bosses. You want to have a fast melee but also be tanky. In other words you want melee to match the current OP ranged/spell skills. And again, why don't you just simply play ranged?

You still don't get it. Maybe if they repeated it more:

Melee sucks outside of 3 skills and 2 ascendants but that is okay and nothing should be done to improve anything because other classes has some shitty skills too.

Just agree. Let yourself embrace the amazingness of melee.

Melee sucks compared to ranged/spell especially after the DW nerf: True
Melee sucks in relation to the difficulty of content: False

Bad Solution: Make everything equally broken
Good Solution: Rework the class system as a whole and make deep and meaningful changes that will help the game in the long run.

"

davidnn5 wrote:

Have you even been playing red maps? You keep moaning (can't really find a better word for it, sorry) about syndicate being super-nerfed, as if the right conditions can't still result in one-shots for high life/mitigation characters.

Maybe you're playing brands or something that can pretty much just stay away from them to avoid oneshots (heck, I am) but all the griping about them being wiffle bats is just... bizarre. Every day there's videos being posted showing them killing or two-shotting (with no opportunity to flee/respond) characters with 9k life or more.

in the 'right condition', some builds (especially glass) can get one shot by a pack of magic or yellow mobs in a t15 map- if you dont kill them fast enough.

I fail to see the point of your statement. 'in the right condition' is applicable to anything in poe - if it wasn't, poe would be utterly boring past hitting some breakpoints.

the question is how often these conditions arise.

people moaned (I'm going to use your vocabulary if you don't mind) because theyve been conditioned they can clear non-bosses in maps with their mind on netflix and their dick in their girlfriend/fleshlight and cant handle a league like old school invasion anymore

also - something that should be needless to say, tankiness in poe is not defined by total hp, really. its one of the elements, sure, but without sustain/recovery or concrete defenses 9k hp isnt a panacea from all problems - and it shouldnt be , if we're talking about design.

talking about ranged characters, my build could facetank majority of pre-nerf syndicates in melee range. I could facetank almost all fortifications even though winter orb cant target the door for shit

the tools and defenses are all there nowadays. people just still invest in damage because damage lets them kill shit faster and thus limit the damage input coming at them.

a slight step sideways to something that is tankier and has a higher damage output in maps than your magic/rare trash and people 'moan'

seriously, this league there are two suffix crafts

120% effect of fortify while focussed on chest

and vaal pact when focussed + 10% leech on amulet

this means for 4 seconds with fortify on you have 44% damage reduction from all hits and have effective 40% regen as long as youre doing damage

4 seconds is a LONG time nowadays. youre basically immortal as long as you can survive a real one-shot

combine it with a defensive mechanic such as dodge evasion enfeeble blind, recovery perks in pantheon/belt/ascendancies, pantheon reduction, defensive flasks...and you can facetank syndicates.

again, the problem is that people dont want/like to invest in defenses, they want offense to be their defense. well *shrug*

"

davidnn5 wrote:

Have you even been playing red maps? You keep moaning (can't really find a better word for it, sorry) about syndicate being super-nerfed, as if the right conditions can't still result in one-shots for high life/mitigation characters.

Maybe you're playing brands or something that can pretty much just stay away from them to avoid oneshots (heck, I am) but all the griping about them being wiffle bats is just... bizarre. Every day there's videos being posted showing them killing or two-shotting (with no opportunity to flee/respond) characters with 9k life or more.

My melee HC trickster is still alive after having run quite a bunch of red maps recently .... damn, how do I not get one shot ? IT MUST BE A MIRACLE !!
( I could not play much better they got nerfd, so no red map experience of the pre-nerf one in red maps, only up to a10 and I didn't die either when so many were crying about them dealing too much damage even before maps ).



Regarding the bolded part, please show us today's video.
And yesterday.
And the 30 days before since you're at it.

Or better ( since you won't be able to obviously ) : stop taking silly baseless numbers out of your magic hat for convenience.