Melee needs Tuning - ASAP, Like Yesterday

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Legatus1982 wrote:

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ciel289 wrote:

your own definition of "real" melee makes it impossible for them to be good when you compare them to other good gems.
as soon as your "real" melee gem would get buffed to be a "good" gem it would drop out of your "real" melee definition

Yes THAT'S THE POINT

Real melee cannot compete in current poe. These gems need to change from real melee to current poe melee

As long as they lack aoe or movement as require name lock they will be trash

What's the point? The issue is for game to change so every playstyle has its purpose. Adjusting melee to match current popular ranged/spell skills, will give you few more "viable" options, but the game will still be in a bad state.

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Jdahl22 wrote:

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Legatus1982 wrote:

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ciel289 wrote:

your own definition of "real" melee makes it impossible for them to be good when you compare them to other good gems.
as soon as your "real" melee gem would get buffed to be a "good" gem it would drop out of your "real" melee definition

Yes THAT'S THE POINT

Real melee cannot compete in current poe. These gems need to change from real melee to current poe melee

As long as they lack aoe or movement as require name lock they will be trash

What's the point? The issue is for game to change so every playstyle has its purpose. Adjusting melee to match current popular ranged/spell skills, will give you few more "viable" options, but the game will still be in a bad state.

I'm not sure what you mean by in a bad state, but the skills relative power levels will be high regardless of content until the old ones match the new ones capability

If you're saying clear is too fast I can agree, but making maps slower won't fix this problem, the regular gems will still be faster clear and thus an objectively superior choice

I do not see any future of poe involving the current real melee gems being able to generate as much currency and xp as ranged builds

I'm saying that every play style should excel in different area of the game in a meaningful way. If speed is all you care for, then why not just play the good skills? What's the difference in clearing t15's at level 70 with 20c budget with a melee skill than with a spell?

They shouldn't generate xp and currency as fast as ranged specs. That's a good thing. The point is that non melee specs shouldn't do everything else just as good as clearing.

I would like to see those gems fixed without pushing them into generic AOE. The main reason is that the design space for aoe skills is pretty filled and we lack good single-target skills for budget builds.


Here are my suggestions:

heavy strike
-> more damage, this should be the skill with highest possible damage output after vigilant strike.

vigilant strike
-> moar damage! reduced enemy stun threshold. yes, we should have this awesome interaction with charge on stun. could be broken at bosses, but rather fix stun-lock on bosses...

viper strike
-> applies an additional poison. 100% poison chance. This brings it on par with other skills that hit several times and reduces investment in poison-chance.

glacial hammer
-> dunno. probably more damage?

dual strike
-> remove? i honestly do not see the difference to double strike except the visuals.

melee puncture
-> fix bleeding?

melee frenzy
-> something happens at maximum charges. This could be an AOE. And it should scale with the number of frenzy charges.


double strike
-> this one is fine

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Legatus1982 wrote:

I do not see any future of poe involving the current real melee gems being able to generate as much currency and xp as ranged builds

WAT

currency is now more about choices than anything. syndicate, delve, etc. rng is still rng, but there are now choices for guaranteed currency.

xp - this is lolz.

again, remember the syndicate? the first month+ was nothing but complaints about dying and complaints about the xp penalty. the meta was having issues sustaining xp - cheesy exploits aside.

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robmafia wrote:

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Legatus1982 wrote:

I do not see any future of poe involving the current real melee gems being able to generate as much currency and xp as ranged builds

WAT

currency is now more about choices than anything. syndicate, delve, etc. rng is still rng, but there are now choices for guaranteed currency.

xp - this is lolz.

again, remember the syndicate? the first month+ was nothing but complaints about dying and complaints about the xp penalty. the meta was having issues sustaining xp - cheesy exploits aside.

The meta accounts for pretty much all of the high level characters so I think your assessment is a bit flawed there

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Jdahl22 wrote:

I'm saying that every play style should excel in different area of the game in a meaningful way. If speed is all you care for, then why not just play the good skills? What's the difference in clearing t15's at level 70 with 20c budget with a melee skill than with a spell?

They shouldn't generate xp and currency as fast as ranged specs. That's a good thing. The point is that non melee specs shouldn't do everything else just as good as clearing.

Uh... why is that a good thing? It's good that real melee gems are literally good at nothing? In what way is it good?

These gems don't "excel" at literally anything

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Legatus1982 wrote:

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Jdahl22 wrote:

I'm saying that every play style should excel in different area of the game in a meaningful way. If speed is all you care for, then why not just play the good skills? What's the difference in clearing t15's at level 70 with 20c budget with a melee skill than with a spell?

They shouldn't generate xp and currency as fast as ranged specs. That's a good thing. The point is that non melee specs shouldn't do everything else just as good as clearing.

Uh... why is that a good thing? It's good that real melee gems are literally good at nothing? In what way is it good?

These gems don't "excel" at literally anything

And why do you care? The playstyle you want is already in game. Why don't you play spells/bow skills? Making melee the same would make the game better in what way? Will it be more fun, more deep, more challenging?

And I don't need to point out that some melee skills excel in safety, they just do less damage (some of them) after the nerf. MS or any bloodseeker build that can have around 500k boss damage can trivialize most content. I facetanked shaper with bloodseeker ele hit and just decent gear. Yes it's clearing is crap but so what?

Yes there is a problem with melee, yes there is a problem with the class system in general, but your solution is in the exact opposite direction of making the game more interesting and more diverse.

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Legatus1982 wrote:

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robmafia wrote:

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Legatus1982 wrote:

I do not see any future of poe involving the current real melee gems being able to generate as much currency and xp as ranged builds

WAT

currency is now more about choices than anything. syndicate, delve, etc. rng is still rng, but there are now choices for guaranteed currency.

xp - this is lolz.

again, remember the syndicate? the first month+ was nothing but complaints about dying and complaints about the xp penalty. the meta was having issues sustaining xp - cheesy exploits aside.

The meta accounts for pretty much all of the high level characters so I think your assessment is a bit flawed there

?????

no, i covered the bases.

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Legatus1982 wrote:

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Jdahl22 wrote:

I'm saying that every play style should excel in different area of the game in a meaningful way. If speed is all you care for, then why not just play the good skills? What's the difference in clearing t15's at level 70 with 20c budget with a melee skill than with a spell?

They shouldn't generate xp and currency as fast as ranged specs. That's a good thing. The point is that non melee specs shouldn't do everything else just as good as clearing.

Uh... why is that a good thing? It's good that real melee gems are literally good at nothing? In what way is it good?

These gems don't "excel" at literally anything

bs.

they excel at boss killing/single target damage.