Gear progression in PoE is like D3 with AH
" Enough with your logical arguments. Preface: I am NOT in favor of an actual AH like WoW or the D3 AH. I am in favor of player-run shops enabled by purchasing both a "license" to open the shop and the premium tabs in which to list items for sale. I have not played either the xbox or Chinese versions of PoE to know how those markets work (do you have to have premium tabs to sell using the tool?) but that would also be fine with me. I want an in-game trading tool, period. There seem to be two main arguments (other than the ridiculous "but D3 did it and it destroyed the game" hogwash") against implementing in-game trading tools: (1) the game will revolve completely around the "AH" instead of farming, devaluing self-found loot and removing the thrill of having something awesome drop because people will go buy their BIS gear, and (2) drop rates will have to be nerfed to oblivion due to the easy acquisition of items due to the expansion of the seller's market. Let's start with 1. For many players, the game already revolves around trading. However, very few people actually buy their BIS gear straight away. Most players are like me. We play through the story and start mapping while leveling gems and acquiring gear until we can begin playing our build. At that point, we take note of what is missing from the equipment we need to enable our build and hit up the trade site to fill those spots. In the case of my necro this league, at lv 85 I still had not had The Baron or several jewels drop for me so I bought them. I also needed to shore up my resists so I bought 2 rings and a belt. With the exception of the helm, nothing I bought is permanent and all have room for massive improvement. Even the jewels I bought aren't great rolls and can be improved. There is ample opportunity for that "OMG YAAAASSSSS!" moment when I ID a ring or get a perfect Brawn drop to justify farming (not that you can actually farm ANYTHING in PoE due to the fact that almost everything can drop almost anywhere) and to continue developing my character. Enabling an in-game trading tool would not destroy this experience. It would have simplified my acquisition of the couple of items I needed to get my build rolling so I could venture deeper into the atlas but that's it. No doom, no gloom. I also disagree with the notion that everyone will buy their BIS gear simply because there would be an easier way of doing so. Even now, those items are out of reach of all but the wealthiest players. Having easier access to stuff you can't afford won't automagically enable players to acquire those items. That market will still be the exclusive domain of trade guilds and people who play the market. The rest of us will continue using trade like we always have - to fill holes in our kit so we can progress into the endgame content. Regarding drop rates, you are delusional if you think rates aren't already tailored around trading. As soon as GGG produced their copy of poe.trade, that cat escaped the bag forever. The rate of acquisition of uniques will not change. Of course, that's not the RNG that really matters for min/maxing. The true gate lies in rares and their affixes. It's already insanely difficult and expensive to craft GG multi-T1 rares and the likelihood of having such an item drop is nearly zero. That will not change as it is already regulated by the manipulation of currency drop rates. The existence of an in-game trading tool will not change that, either. What about the destruction of the economy because so much more stuff would be sold if it were easier? It seems the people who keep making that statement forget about the other side of that coin: the buyers. If the market is made more accessible, more people will dip their toes in it. That includes both sellers and buyers. Will there be some corrections? Sure. However, things will stabilize, as they always do, as market forces play out. More people buying from more people selling will have little effect on the overall health of the economy other than there would be more transactions occurring. Charon hit the nail on the head with his observation that "Those who engage in PoE's trade setup now but argue that PoE shouldn't have a built-in AH/marketplace because D3 had one and look how that went are cutting off the nose to spite the face. And, I think, living in denial. Just a little bit." though I'd argue that it's more than a little bit. The d3 PTSD is real. There are two types of POE players:
1) Those who want to walk uphill both ways barefoot on broken glass wearing a blindfold 2) F*cking noobs I identify as transnational Chinese. May I have access to their QOL features, please? | |
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If instant-buyout markets were ever created in POE, I personally think it would ruin the game. I've moved to SSF since it was introduced so don't really care about the economy stuff anymore.
I will say, however, that the small inconvenience barrier that is talking to people for trade is important. I would venture to say a LOT of players don't flip items because they really don't want to go through the hassle of talking with people to do it. If i could set up real time searches for items I know will be under-priced and I flip them without talking to anyone, my wealth would multiply considerably. The problem is not that people get items faster and it's more convenient. The RATE at which these transactions take place is extremely important. Primarily because POE doesn't have a market curb. Currency prices would fluctuate like crazy and valuations would be completely off. I mean look at the current exalt:chaos ratio in Incursion SC. If people were playing that trade market, without a curb (talking with other players), the speculation would drive that number even higher or have create wide swings. This would make it so that a large group of people could lose their wealth instantly and others gain that wealth instantly. This is not good for sustainable markets. Imagine the "Mathil Effect" without trading curbs (once again the trading curb reference in poe is having to actually talk to a person to complete a trade). People would naturally price items with the understanding that flipping is now THE DEFACTO METHOD to play the game (assuming trading is instant). People would create sniping bot tools that instantly buy and sell items on the market. An AH would absolutely be the wrong thing to do in POE...not because of anything related to D3, but the nature of PoE itself. Hell, with ascendancy nobody really even buys mid-level rares to transition into end game gear. You buy/farm a tabula rasa then straight to end game gear. The power creep has already killed much of the gear transition that increased the longevity of this game. Instant trading would make this worse and at the same time make end-game upgrades nigh unaffordable for a large group of the trading player base. Last edited by Prizy on Jun 21, 2018, 12:50:17 PM
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" the china one is not superior at all. When buying items I want to find exactly what I want more than I want an automated interface for the transaction. A bunch of randoms on a forum with no real data can never trump those like David Brevik, Chris Wilson and Blizzard who have all stated that the D3 style AH, real money or currency based, is horrible for ARPGs. |
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" Flipping is something they could address by making all gear transferable only once before being bound to an account. Blizzard should have implemented something like that in D3 when the AH was up. It would have gotten rid of all AH flipping issues. The downside is that once you find a new upgrade you can't sell off your old one if you bought it from someone. David Brevik also suggested that an ARPG could have a limited AH where some item slots such as amulets and rings were sellable/tradeable and other were always Bind on Acquire. This would require buffing all drops of those types though, or making crafting more reliable. I'm totally against just turning the games trading system into a FFA auction house. But I'm not against other improvements to the system such as those I listed above. |
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" Soul bound items after trade is not a great idea as it makes it so that intermediate gear for mid-tier mapping would be completely dead. The downside of not being able to sell an item after buying it is a HUGE deterrent for "okayish" gear. Players would be more reluctant to buy any gear they might replace which would slow down the market and only make the best of the best items of any value. Having only specific slots being instantly tradeable and others not also seems unintuitive. I conceptually don't like the idea of soul-bound items (funny as I play ssf techincally everything is relatively soulbound :D ). I don't think there is a simple solution. | |
" Nobody said the solution was simple. :) Without soulbinding you cant fix flipping and market cornering. So if you have an AH you'll need some sort of soulbinding mechanism. Intermediate gear would be priced appropriately since everyone will know it's temporary and soulbound. As far as some types of gear being tradeable and others not, Marvel Heroes ended up with something like that eventually. It's not horrendous as long as it's not unfeasible to get the gear you want. But they implemented it after making everything tradable and so people were unhappy about that. While I'm mostly fine with trading in POE, I'd prefer not having to trade to get upgrades all the time at endgame. D3's current system is mostly SF, you can only trade items with people that were partied with you when it dropped. I'm on the fence with their system. The good is that you spend your time playing and not searching for items to trade for. That game is mostly about looking for better rolls on the items you already have. I can't completely judge it since their endgame GR system is horribly boring. but in some ways it feels less rewarding than grinding for currency top buy items with. |
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The only thing trading needs is for a buyout option to be implemented for online characters. Everything else can stay the same.
If you list something with a buyout, it can be bought without the trade window being initiated. You would still have to list the item with a buyout price. Only online characters can use it. It would remove 99% of all the bullshit we currently experience with trade. Thats all that needs to be done... | |
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Im gonna repeat what I always thought:
the easier trading - the more bots and top players will get further away from average Joe. While you sleep, they farm While you map, they flip You cant keep up. Only to stall their progress. Insta buying, selling would rock the market. Poe 2.0 new trailers when?
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why bitch when you could be a good little boy in ggg eyes to get into early access then play SSF if you want :^)
spend moar monee amigo @MercilessDocks_Farmer
Member wen 76 Crema boss was the most exhilarating fight in da gayme? | |
" Um, bots would just stay logged in 24 hours a day - your solution isnt a solution |
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